Who's playing 10mm Fantasy or Warmaster

[MattW]

Love the pics - I've been thinking about doing some rpg style missions with the 10mm general/heroes - being able to do much more in the play area would be great.

What would you all love to see in 10mm fantasy that's not been done yet, or done properly - a good range of heroes, creatures, more buildings, certain armies, certain stories or IP's?

That’s a tough question. I’m not so fussed about IP, sometimes that can be too restrictive. I’d love to see Rick Priestly do a WMv2 for rules though.

I think the biggest problem with most ranges out there is the lack of detail and variety in the sculpts. Then there’s the issue of incomplete ranges. The best 10mm fantasy range available now is the Eureka Lizardmen, IMO. Closely followed by Warmonger’s renaissance mercenaries (cough) range, and Copplestone’s definitely not-LOTR stuff. I think that it would be important to do 5-6 races and do them well. Big beasties, variety in the infantry sculpts, and good quality characters.

I’ve been thinking about getting some fantasy Eastern Europeans sculpted up and cast, but just need to find the spare cash...

[robh]

What would you all love to see in 10mm fantasy that's not been done yet, or done properly - a good range of heroes, creatures, more buildings, certain armies, certain stories or IP's?

As I mentioned in an earlier post on the pulp forum I would be very interested in seeing a range of Buck Rogers figures and models faithful to the original Nowlan "Armageddon 2419AD" and "Airships of Han" books.
Lots of opportunities for great models from "Rocket" men through Anti Gravity flyers to remote control attack drones and hover tanks. Has pitched battles, sieges and commando style raids for various different scope games.
Sci-fantasy or Retro sci-fi rather than high fantasy, but certainly nothing suitable for it at the moment.
Don't know if TSR (as subsumed by WotC) still have the IP following their 1993 release:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Adventure_Cliffhangers_Buck_Rogers_Adventure_Game

[Warren Abox]

Most of the 10mm stuff works together pretty well.

Okay, here's a couple of comparison shots from the peanut gallery:







Sorry for the focus on that last one.  You can see the heights well enough.  That's a Copplestone, Pendraken (I think - I might have those two reversed) and Irregular elf in each shot.  Bear in mind we're comparing wood elves to high elves, so in my mind a little height difference is understandable.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

As in many scales, elves seem to always be a disappointment.  The Irregular elves look quite good.  Those with Copplestone for everything else would work quite well.  I still like 28mm for fantasy, but I would use that only for skirmishes/small battles.  For truly epic battles I would rather go for 15 or 10mm (I know some do great work with 6mm - and I like it for Napoleonics -  but for fantasy that just seems too small).
I might now have three projects.............

[fred]

 Interesting that those Irregular Elves are so much bigger.

Kind of links to my earlier point that not all ranges are consistent with themselves.

[armchairgeneral]

Despite being an entrenched 28mm gamer I am always tempted by the Copplestone 10mm fantasy range.

[blacksmith]

Not strictly fantasy but I'd love there would be a non John Carter of Mars 10mm range with Green Men, Red men and all kind of beasts and monsters and other things like skiffs.

[modiphius]

Not strictly fantasy but I'd love there would be a non John Carter of Mars 10mm range with Green Men, Red men and all kind of beasts and monsters and other things like skiffs.

Well given our license an official one might be possible ;-)

As there's lots of pretty good general fantasy lines already if we were to do something I'd try to focus on something different yet popular that would give some added value.

What I am also looking for next is THE rule set that really brings out the strengths of 10mm. Of course Warmaster is there but it's not being supported. As I've mentioned Mayhem and Mortem et Gloriam seem to be great contenders, and people have mentioned Mantic's Kings of War, Rally Round the King etc. What level of detail do you want at this scale?

- Do we want to be making detailed reaction or morale tests or enjoying the grand sweep of the battle?
- I think we might all agree we want to see the hero or hero led unit making a difference
- Magic is important but do we care about individual attacks spells - maybe magic at this scale really should be battlefield magic - the whole enemy flank finds itself beset by flies, or sinking in mud which results in a modifier, less attach dice whatever next turn?
- Terror has an impact as dragons, undead or other unearthly beasts make an appearance

Are you playing this scale really to get a Kings of War or Warhammer scale battle inside a smaller table OR to zoom out and have a huge battle where many of the things that would matter at Kings of War / 28mm scale don't really matter now. Perhaps the question should be what DONT you want to be rolling tests for at this scale?

[fred]

We want big battles, lots of units, some command uncertainty (but not to WM levels) lots of movement (far more than is realistic for a medieval style battle!), units with strengths and weaknesses, magic that is useful but doesn't dominate. Big Monsters - this is another of 10mm's strengths, and is perhaps a gap in the current market, GW made big monsters for WM, but not many of the current manufactures do, beyond a few elephants / mammoths.

We ended up creating a own home brew rules to fit the the above (well apart from making big monsters).

[MattW]

Well given our license an official one might be possible ;-)

As there's lots of pretty good general fantasy lines already if we were to do something I'd try to focus on something different yet popular that would give some added value.

What I am also looking for next is THE rule set that really brings out the strengths of 10mm. Of course Warmaster is there but it's not being supported. As I've mentioned Mayhem and Mortem et Gloriam seem to be great contenders, and people have mentioned Mantic's Kings of War, Rally Round the King etc. What level of detail do you want at this scale?

- Do we want to be making detailed reaction or morale tests or enjoying the grand sweep of the battle?
- I think we might all agree we want to see the hero or hero led unit making a difference
- Magic is important but do we care about individual attacks spells - maybe magic at this scale really should be battlefield magic - the whole enemy flank finds itself beset by flies, or sinking in mud which results in a modifier, less attach dice whatever next turn?
- Terror has an impact as dragons, undead or other unearthly beasts make an appearance

Are you playing this scale really to get a Kings of War or Warhammer scale battle inside a smaller table OR to zoom out and have a huge battle where many of the things that would matter at Kings of War / 28mm scale don't really matter now. Perhaps the question should be what DONT you want to be rolling tests for at this scale?

I think that Fred sums up what I'd be looking for in a game at this scale- especially the sense of ordering and maneuvering troops around.

That's a reasonable point about IP, but it's tough to think of one that hasn't already been exploited. I mean, you guys have a relationship with Bethesda now, so something in their Tamriel could be really quite fun (though it'd obviously be quite different in scale to the video game experience- but I think that's a good thing). They've got pretty well everything you'd need to make a 10mm game appealing- lots of variety of races, big scary monsters, etc. The only thing is whether such large-scale battles are part of the lore? Also, would there be sufficient variety of units?

[modiphius]

I think that Fred sums up what I'd be looking for in a game at this scale- especially the sense of ordering and maneuvering troops around.

That's a reasonable point about IP, but it's tough to think of one that hasn't already been exploited. I mean, you guys have a relationship with Bethesda now, so something in their Tamriel could be really quite fun (though it'd obviously be quite different in scale to the video game experience- but I think that's a good thing). They've got pretty well everything you'd need to make a 10mm game appealing- lots of variety of races, big scary monsters, etc. The only thing is whether such large-scale battles are part of the lore? Also, would there be sufficient variety of units?

Working with IP's can be good and bad - recognition but as you say maybe not sufficient variety of units without inventing stuff that people then aren't familiar with especially when you get in to organised units. Vanilla fantasy can be just that 'nice to have' but not 'OMG I have to get that'!

Agree with Fred on the big monsters - surprised companies haven't done any that are exciting. I can imagine sorcerers throwing fireballs at the unit level, but this might have the same effect as a well placed volley or archery (which can also frighten the hell out of you if you just saw all your friends drop with arrows through them), so maybe when we zoom out to 10mm level on the grande scale the only magic that really matters is what affects the battlefield as a whole or whole groups of units?

I agree on more movement than realistic - there's nothing so boring as seeing a massive army, grind it's way closer then it's basically a dice war to see who crumbles. I want to see units racing for the ruins to stop the sorcerer, a last stand over here, a desperate push across the river before it's too late, a mad flanking sweep and so on.

[nic-e]

I agree on more movement than realistic - there's nothing so boring as seeing a massive army, grind it's way closer then it's basically a dice war to see who crumbles. I want to see units racing for the ruins to stop the sorcerer, a last stand over here, a desperate push across the river before it's too late, a mad flanking sweep and so on.

I don't want to over sell myself right now ,But I've been working on a ruleset recently for rank and flank fantasy/historicals that fixes this.
It gets rid of dice compltley and focuses entirely on battlefield manoeuvring and out thinking your opponent.

i remember watching a demo game throughout the day at salute.A beautiful ancients game, But after about 4 hours the two armies were still trudging towards each other.very dull,even if it was accurate!

[MattW]

Working with IP's can be good and bad - recognition but as you say maybe not sufficient variety of units without inventing stuff that people then aren't familiar with especially when you get in to organised units. Vanilla fantasy can be just that 'nice to have' but not 'OMG I have to get that'!

Agree with Fred on the big monsters - surprised companies haven't done any that are exciting. I can imagine sorcerers throwing fireballs at the unit level, but this might have the same effect as a well placed volley or archery (which can also frighten the hell out of you if you just saw all your friends drop with arrows through them), so maybe when we zoom out to 10mm level on the grande scale the only magic that really matters is what affects the battlefield as a whole or whole groups of units?

I agree on more movement than realistic - there's nothing so boring as seeing a massive army, grind it's way closer then it's basically a dice war to see who crumbles. I want to see units racing for the ruins to stop the sorcerer, a last stand over here, a desperate push across the river before it's too late, a mad flanking sweep and so on.

The recent Joan of Arc Kickstarter was a pretty great indicator of what can be done with big monsters at these smaller scales. I really like how you envisage these battles. As for magic, being able to give some extra movement, for example, should be far more significant than throwing a fireball or two. As scary as that might be, the damage wouldn’t be too great. What I’m trying to say is that magic should work more as buffs/debuffs than as a way of wiping out your opponents.


I think that the only real “I have to have that” fantasy IP at the moment is something like Skyrim. GoT is taken, LoTR is taken, and AFAIK there just aren't many other possibilities. Maybe the Witcher? But that's just mostly medieval humans fighting each other, I think.

[MachinaMandala]

Posting to watch.

[modiphius]

I don't want to over sell myself right now ,But I've been working on a ruleset recently for rank and flank fantasy/historicals that fixes this.
It gets rid of dice compltley and focuses entirely on battlefield manoeuvring and out thinking your opponent.

i remember watching a demo game throughout the day at salute.A beautiful ancients game, But after about 4 hours the two armies were still trudging towards each other.very dull,even if it was accurate!

Would be great to see some of the concepts when you're ready to share :-)