help request on East German infantry organization

[arshak]

Hi everybody,
I am starting a 20mm 1:1 project for ColdWarGoneHot, namely some NVA East Germans (mot. infantry), period c. 1985-1987. As I am more at home with ww2, I would need some help to make up my mind on a basic structure for a platoon, in particular I am struggling to understand how many RPK (LMG) should be included in a squad (1 or2? I have seen contrasting sources..) and to what level are PKM (GPMG) supposed to be found (allotted to company and then distributed to platoons?). in addition, what should be included in a platoon, apart from the three canonical infantry squads? I have read that there should be no pl. command section -for example- and that the platoon leader was supposed to be one of the three squad leaders, is it correct?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Fabrizio

[tom_aargau]

A squad (Gruppe) using a BMP IFV

- Gruppenführer (squad leader)
- IFV driver
- IFV gunner
- MG-gunner 1 (lMG-K)
- RPG-gunner 1 (RPG-7, Pistole M)
- RPG-gunner 2 (MPi) - (assists gunner 1)
- Infantery man (MPi)
- Infantery man (MPi)
- MG-gunner 2 (lMG-K)

3 squads form a Zug (platoon), commanded by a Leutnant.

[arshak]

Thank you so much!
do you think that they may mix RPK and PKM within the squad? as far as I understand this seems to have been the case...

[tom_aargau]

I don't they two machine guns were mixed. The RPK was introduced as the replacement of the PKM in the late sixties.

[Arlequín]

Surely you mean the RPK replaced the RPD? The PK did not enter Soviet service until 1961, two years after the RPK. The PK was designed to replace the SGM and RP-46.

The Wikipedia article

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorisierte_Schützentruppen

Gives a slightly different organisation for the gruppe. The transport vehicle would determine squad size in terms of how many riflemen were in the gruppe (at least they did in the Soviet Army). Tom's gruppe might be right for BMP-2? BMP -1 and especially BTR should be larger.

I am surprised that there were two IMG in a six-man gruppe, but I am no expert. That also holds true for the RPK vs PK question, apart from that there would definitely be at least one RPK in each gruppe.

[Elbows]

I don't know about the organization, but I do believe the RPK (chambered in 5.45) was intended to replace the terribly heavy RPD (chambered in 7.62x39).  The PKM is a decidedly more "medium" machine gun (7.62x54R), vs. the RPK which is a long-barreled AK with a reinforced received and heavy barrel - but allows the use of normal 5.45 AK magazines.  It was the source of the 45-rounders which became hugely popular for use in normal AK-74s (at least in Russia later, likely not in the East German army).

Great guns all around, and while I love the look of the RPD...holy balls that's a heavy weapon.  I only got to inspect one once, but jeeeeebus.  

[Arlequín]

The 5.45mm would be the lMG-RPK-74 (or KN-500), which came into VA service around the same time as the 5.45mm MPi-AK-74, whenever that was. As we were talking lMG-K (RPK), PK and MPi (usually taken as the AK-47, or MPi-K), I thought we were just talking 7.62mm.

Regardless though, at least one RPK/RPK-74 per gruppe over anything else.

On a different note, there was/is a drum mag for the RPK/RPK-74 which sort of produces the same amount of awesome as the RPD. You sometimes see RPK mags on AKs in the more rowdy areas of the world. Sometimes 30 rounds just isn't enough. I don't know if the drum fits them though.

There was also the export models based on the AK-74 family, aka 'Wieger' produced by the DDR in the Late '80s, chambered for 5.56 NATO. Peru and India ordered some, but the DDR fell before the orders could be fulfilled.  

[Happy Wanderer]

“Sometimes 30 rounds just isn't enough”

...quote of the day...

Hey J. 😉

Happy Wanderer

[Arlequín]

Hey yourself!   

Nothing says "I'm serious" like a 100 rnd banana mag. Amirite? 

[arshak]

thanks to all for your help...I will see how to proceed bearing in mind your remarks

[Elbows]

Yes, the 45-round magazines became very popular once available (people even putting them in AKSU-74s, etc.).  In Chechnya (and possibly before?) they would create what they called "Royal" or "King" magazines which were two 45-round magazines taped together (inverted so you could use either).

Heck, I have several 45-round magazines for my AK-74, and one of them would go in first if the world ever fell apart.

[Durutti]

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/351210470934008121/

looks like two RPKs One RPG, and three AKs, this is a BMP section.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/351210470924479599/

some good footage of NVA exercises, showing a six man section moving up.

[Ragsta]

Heck, I have several 45-round magazines for my AK-74, and one of them would go in first if the world ever fell apart.

Good grief Elbows, whereabouts are you from?? My first memory of banana clips was from watching Robocop 2 

[arshak]

Thank you so much for the links Durruti, the footage is very interesting, while I already knew the pic but did not think to dwell on the weapons to figure out how the troops were equipped  …I also explored some pics of Russians in Afghanistan –so, in real action– and photos of sections with a handful of troops bearing a couple of lMG are not rare (sometimes two RPK, sometimes a PKM and a RPK)…thanks again!