Is Wargaming Getting Too Easy?

[stone-cold-lead]

What makes it particularly ironic is that the OP is author of Frostgrave - a game with many official scenarios, campaign supplements, offcial (boxed set) miniatures, and a very strong 'canon' background.

All things the erstwhile OP seems to be bemoaning.

Really?    Out of touch gamer writes game?!

I don't think the blog post mentioned 'spoon feeding' though (something that was apparently killing creativity back in the early 90's!). 

[joe5mc]

Antonio J Carrasco - That's a very fair retort. Maybe my first assumption is wrong. I can only comment on what I have personally seen, but it is a huge hobby and my personal experiences may not actually match with the the majority of cases.

Humakt - I don't think my being the author of Frostgrave is at odds with my post. I am advocating for greater creative depth in the hobby. Yes, Frostgrave has plenty of associated material you can buy, but I believe I have been consistent in my advocacy within the game as well. The background to the game is actually quite light and intentionally vague.

[JamesValentine]

I don't mind things getting a little easier.

90% of games still require you to paint models. so xwing means nothing really. and allot of people (if not most I think) repaint them in some way it seems. but at least it means you both have some kind of painted army and I don't have to walk away from playing against grey plastic while being called an elitist.

rules getting easier is fine. I quite like picking up an osprey rules set and being able to play quickly. especially when I lack space and want to try allot of things.
but simplicity isn't always great, 40k is supposed to be simple now. but its a trainwreck. a complete joke and practically unplayable.

I don't really remember what else I read. I was distracted by passive aggressive posters

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

I don’t think that wargaming is getting easier. I think that the better availability of figures, game aids and terrain is doing the opposite. I feel the need to put a lot of effort in to make a respectable game.

If I think back to when I started in the late 1970s, we were content with a green baize cloth as the ground, with books underneath for hills and a few bits of lichen as trees & bushes. The figures were crudely painted compared to modern standards and had very simple hand cut hardboard bases that varied in size. The figures were generic (Celts can also be Viking Berserkers) and ten identical figures were painted in different colours to “individualise” them.

My recent projects have included a huge 1476 Swiss verses Burgundy game where the 250+ figures are mostly Perry WOTR plastics with a lot of converted items so that no two are identical. There are custom movement trays and the bases are exact sizes to the milimeter. There are flags of the period, printed with a laser printer onto paper. The base cloth was made using teddy bear fur and dyed by me. The terrain is hand built based on Schillings illustrations.

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=42627.0

I have another similar project for Agincourt.

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=78682.0

[robh]

That was a well written and well reasoned opinion piece (as was the original article that prompted it).

Given the definition of "easy" the author was using, Yes, Wargaming has become too easy.  People are responding comparing the hobby now to when they started wargaming (all the way back in the 90's in some cases  ).

Go back another 20 or 30 years to when some of us started in this hobby and compare.
You wanted figures, you made or converted them yourself. You wanted scenery, you made it from scratch or cannibalised the model railway guys stuff. As for wargame rules, you wrote them. You wanted background information, uniform colours or flag designs you went to the local library and ordered a rare and obscure book written by someone called Funken through the inter library loan service. Waited a month for it to arrive then in 7 days hand transcribed the information you needed into your own scrapbook. Along with your best artistic copies of the uniform plates and flags. Or worse, had to drop into the library every evening after school for a couple of hours to do it because the book was "reading only" and you were not allowed to take it home.

So yes, in true Yorkshire style it is too easy (in the OP sense) these days. The negligible amount of time and effort  people have to expend to get a "wargame" experience these days means the vast majority have no real attachment or investment in the hobby. It has become a "disposable" thing, people throw money at it, try it, dump it and move on to something else. As time and technology has progressed people have become self entitled to a point where everything has to be instantly available and with a minimum of effort.

It would be an interesting exercise to ask a novice "wargamer" today to stage a game of Spion Kop from a box of Airfix British Napoleonic Infantry, a box of Airfix ACW Confederates and some plasticine and araldite. WITHOUT looking at the internet.
(That is assuming Lady Smith still gets relieved in history lessons these days)

[Oldben1]

I really enjoyed your blog post.
I have to say it was the WOTC prepainted Star Wars miniatures that got me into wargaming in the first place.  It was my gateway drug into a much more creative hobby. It was easy to learn, and required very little in terms of terrain.  It didn’t take long before I was building 3D terrain, and modifying the rules.

 I also love board games, and I appreciate that many of them have taken a page out of the wargaming book and created games with maps and miniatures.  I Like the diversity. 

I think you make a good point when it you mention missing the ‘old school’ feel for games.  It might be nostalgia, but I feel the same way.  I’ve only been in the hobby for about 15 years, but things do seem to change pretty quickly.  You are not alone though, didn’t they just republish some of the old D and D rule sets from the 70’s? 

Anyways . . .

[voltan]

It would be an interesting exercise to ask a novice "wargamer" today to stage a game of Spion Kop from a box of Airfix British Napoleonic Infantry, a box of Airfix ACW Confederates and some plasticine and araldite. WITHOUT looking at the internet.

It might actually be more interesting to get some of the "old school" wargamers to do it and see if they still have as much enjoyment out of the process, all the while knowing what's available now.

[Kommando_J]

Personally I like that some aspects have gotten 'easier' such as terrain and playing aids, because when I started out it was all hand made stuff and to be quite frank...mine looked like arse .

On the other hand I have found that some aspects I dislike, take for example GW's rule of only producing rules for units that have minis, all good in one sense...but also bad in that I am seeing less interesting conversions.

Everybody now has the same plastic heroes leading armies and it all starts to feel the same, it may be good at being less daunting for newcomers(a reason GW has actually given) but it also causes a definite loss.

[MartinR]

I thought it was an interesting post, and nothing "elitist" about it at all.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Just a question: the good old days were that good? Or is it just nostalgia over our lost youth? In my case, I think, is the second. When I started with wargaming -1988- I had a lot of free time that I could spent with my mates at the club, gaming until 1:00 or 2:00 AM without feeling tired. Actually the opposite: the sense of elation after a whole day of gaming and laughing with your friends was almost overwhelming. I distinctly remember that it took me a couple of hours to fall asleep, that excited I was!

Those feelings are gone now. Even when I manage to find the time for a game with my friends or my kids (advantages of having three 20s kids, two boys and one girl, that have inherited the love of their father for wargaming!) I can't feel what I felt 30 years ago, when I was young and full of energy... and with 20/20 eyesight!

Naturally then when I recall those Koenig Krieg v1 games, with our Freikorps15 SYW armies, the memories are, somehow, more tasty even though the terrain we used was "scarce" (to say politely) and our armies not as wonderfully variated like they are now (my SYW Hannoverians saw a lot of action, from the fields of Western Germany in the 1750s and 1760s, to the wilderness of America in the 1770s!). But we were young and had a lot of free time, so...

Don't know, but I believe that our complaints are against what we have lost, not against what we have now.

[stone-cold-lead]

Don't know, but I believe that our complaints are against what we have lost, not against what we have now.

Totally agree. Much of it is rose tinted memories and also a reluctance to accept change. We've all been there.

[Hobgoblin]

I liked the blog post.

To me, the biggest benefits of RPGs and wargames are the creativity that they can foster, through providing "jumping-off points" for the imagination. That's why I think Warhammer became worse with every edition, even though the actual rules may have improved. And I suspect the same has happened with D&D. I had a look at some of the fifth-edition stuff recently, and what struck me is how prescriptive it is compared with the sparse monster descriptions (for example) that one got in OD&D or BECMI or Runequest. Compare the reams of uninspiring orcish culture in Volo's guide (or whatever it's called) with the description of orcs in Dragon Warriors: "Orcs are the archetypal henchthings of evil." The latter is all you need.

So, while I'm all for convenience and availability, I do think that many games today leave too little to the players' imaginations. And a lot of the "filler" of modern gaming books (RPG or wargaming) is just so bland. Yes, Glorantha and Tekumel had huge amounts of detail, but it was largely "killer".

Now, all the prescriptive fluff that accompanies modern games can be ignored by players - but I suspect it tends not to be. And that's a shame, I think. I really like games in which a generic description can be fleshed out in many different ways - as with a HotT unit, a set of SoBH stats or a Frostgrave soldier profile.

And I though this bit was excellent advice:

"Start small. Buy a few figs. Paint them. Come up with their story. Design a scenario that is specific to your figures. Write it all down. Build a small piece of terrain that features in that story. Then play the game. Afterwards, write about it. Blog about it. Decide what happens next in the story and see if you need new figures or new terrain. Let it spiral upwards and onwards out of control. To me, that is the joy of the hobby."

I don't recall ever having seen nice-looking prepainted figures, though!

[warlord frod]

Go back another 20 or 30 years to when some of us started in this hobby and compare.
You wanted figures, you made or converted them yourself. You wanted scenery, you made it from scratch or cannibalised the model railway guys stuff. As for wargame rules, you wrote them. You wanted background information, uniform colours or flag designs you went to the local library and ordered a rare and obscure book written by someone called Funken through the inter library loan service. Waited a month for it to arrive then in 7 days hand transcribed the information you needed into your own scrapbook. Along with your best artistic copies of the uniform plates and flags. Or worse, had to drop into the library every evening after school for a couple of hours to do it because the book was "reading only" and you were not allowed to take it home.

Being one of the old-guard myself I have to say that I enjoyed the research and work that went into the Hobby back then. I also lament the fact that much of our hobby today lacks the depth that resulted from such work. BUT I do not lament the fact that the hobby has gotten easier (ie more accessible) The maturing of the hobby has brought a wealth of options with varying degrees of complexity. It has brought us excellent products to improve the visual aspects of our game and as a busy 66-year-old graybeard I like the shorter play time and prepainted figures (although I still paint figures as well). YET I do miss the large massed army games of my past and while I still have my old Airfix armies carefully painted and mounted on my handmade card bases they rarely see the table anymore.

So is the hobby getting too easy? Maybe but that's not all bad and there are still some out there doing the research and painting and building and playing the complex rules of old because some of us truly like that kind of thing. That being said I agree with the OP on this point try going a little old school once in a while it will better your gaming experience and broaden the hobby we all enjoy so much.

[stone-cold-lead]

When I go to the odd gaming club show there are two types of people. The old grumpy guys and the people having fun. The grumps seem to love some ultra clunky old system to go with their well worn old armies. The people having fun are usually playing the newer shorter and funner sort of game.

Would they be the grumpy old fella's with a massive table of Naps who seem more interested in scowling and reading their copies of 'Arms Folded Monthly'?  I've seen pics from shows and there's always that table somewhere.

[Captain Blood]

Blanket categorisation of people into either ‘fun cool kids like us’ or grumpy old men to be sneered at? I don’t think it’s as simple as that, is it?
A number of things are being imputed in this discussion which Joe didn’t say at all in his blog entry.
Why so divisive? It’s really quite uncongenial.
Straight out agressive is as unwelcome as passive aggressive - and this thread seems to have an unlovely slug of both already. It’s a shame we can’t seem to discuss these things without getting snarky and trying to do down other people.