Is Wargaming Getting Too Easy?

[LeadAsbestos]

Agreed! I thought the OP was fine, just making a point, and then the catfights started. Joe is taking a beating between this thread and the "I don't like your way of doing rules" thread in the Frostgrave section.

[FionaWhite]

Too easy for whom, though? I don't think this is supposed to be a competition. 

[fusilierdan]

Is Wargaming Getting Too Easy to get into as a hobby?
It will never be too easy. My take away from  joe5mc and the Times , you need to read both, is that we should explore all aspects of the hobby and choose those that are rewarding, challenging and enjoyable.

For me I enjoy painting figures so prepaints are a no go but I don't like building house so 4 Ground stuff meets my needs. I have built a few thing in 15mm scale some houses and a log fort it's not something I really enjoy.

Assembling figures is another thing near the bottom of my list of whats enjoyable but I do it with the Little Britons figures because I enjoy painting and playing with them so much.

Some of the conviences help us focus on the things we enjoy or want to explore in more detail.

My 2 cents worth.

[levied troop]

Blanket categorisation of people into either ‘fun cool kids like us’ or grumpy old men to be sneered at? I don’t think it’s as simple as that, is it?
A number of things are being imputed in this discussion which Joe didn’t say at all in his blog entry.
Why so divisive? It’s really quite uncongenial.
Straight out agressive is as unwelcome as passive aggressive - and this thread seems to have an unlovely slug of both already. It’s a shame we can’t seem to discuss these things without getting snarky and trying to do down other people.

I do appreciate the approach taken in moderating LAF but I’m not sure you’re right here Captain.  The OP posted a faintly foolish piece on his blog (the idea that the entry level for a hobby can be ‘too easy’) then trawls for comments.  And is then hurt that people extract the urine in a fairly mild way:
https://therenaissancetroll.blogspot.co.uk/2018/02/courting-controversy.html

If we cannot have a laugh at his opinion then the only real answer to the OP’s question ‘is wargaming getting too easy’ is:
No
and this makes for a fairly pointless thread. Which to be fair, it is.

Possibly the best approach is for blog writers not to use LAF as  a trawling site to attract comment on opinion pieces?

[MartinR]

Dear me, there seem to be some people getting really bent out of shape by this. What next? Blaming baby boomers for buying all the lead so the younger generation are only left with plastic?

Relax. It's a hobby, not a job.

[Captain Blood]

I do appreciate the approach taken in moderating LAF but I’m not sure you’re right here Captain.  The OP posted a faintly foolish piece on his blog (the idea that the entry level for a hobby can be ‘too easy’) then trawls for comments.  And is then hurt that people extract the urine in a fairly mild way:
https://therenaissancetroll.blogspot.co.uk/2018/02/courting-controversy.html

If we cannot have a laugh at his opinion then the only real answer to the OP’s question ‘is wargaming getting too easy’ is:
No
and this makes for a fairly pointless thread. Which to be fair, it is.

Possibly the best approach is for blog writers not to use LAF as  a trawling site to attract comment on opinion pieces?

The problem is that you may think it's a foolish piece, but other people clearly don't.
Differences of opinion I can live with. We all disagree about things all the time. A range of figures or set of rules or a way of doing things I happen to love and you happen to hate, or vice-versa. Polite, proportionate, disagreement - great.
But there's absolutely no need to cross a line into unpleasant personal sniping, snide comments, and generalisations along the lines of 'Because these people disagree with my view, they must be idiots or wankers'.
It's the angry, hate-filled culture of way too much online discourse, including some other wargaming sites. But we've always worked hard to keep this forum a friendly, courteous, generally constructive place. Which is the way most members seem to like and want it.
 

[Norm]

Thank you.

[Artemis Black]

Imagine if you told someone your hobby was mountain biking, and they asked more questions and found out you just like 'riding' the bike and they started bemoaning the idea that biking is now too easy.

You just bought a bike, already assembled from a shop?! You don't know how to dissassemble your bike down to the individual components?! You don't buy parts from an obscure retailer in Switzerland to upgrade it? You haven't studied the physics of biking and the aerodynamics of the individual parts?

The answer to the original question is 'No'.

There's nothing stopping that mountain biker from doing any of the below, I'm sure he's completely aware it all exists, however it's 'unnecessary' if all he wants to do is ride a bike.

Thank christ it's become this easy to wargame, that's the whole reason the hobby has survived, and even thrived, despite the onsluaght of video gaming. Anyone espousing we spend time actively encouraging people away from actually gaming and down the path of adding toilet mechanics to a wargame seems woefully out of touch with the world.

[voltan]

....down the path of adding toilet mechanics to a wargame.....

Actually. it might be fun if your unit refuses to leave the woods because they've got the runs.

[N.C.S.E]

I'll add my voice to those disagreeing with the idea that wargaming becoming easy is a bad thing. I dislike what I see in X-Wing and similar games (because in my blinkered view pre-painted miniatures are the spawn of satan!), but that doesn't mean that such games (as any popular game that get's people into the hobby is a good thing) are in any way bad. Indeed I'd suggest they're extremely good for the hobby if only for bringing people into contact into with the "wider" (if that makes any sense with such a big game) hobby.

Furthermore, I'd suggest the most effective way to drive people away from the hobby is to tell them that the stuff that they've spent time and a lot of money upon is "easy".

@scurv, I was part of an FB plastic modelling group which was ostensibly about improving people's modelling skills but instead took a perverse pleasure in having a go at people whose skills weren't terrific or people who happened to do a "popular" subject (and I'm hard pressed to think of a more personal hobby than scale modelling). It took the cake when people who disapproved of the group's members combing through people's facebook profiles to find pictures of whatever poor quality models they'd made to have a go at them were told to have: "a good look at themselves".

Leaving that group made my facebook a far better place.

[Harry Faversham]

I shall aply my KISS principle to this vexing conundrum. Getting into wargaming is more than easy, it's so simple, any moron can do it. Buy/make some toy soldiers and trees and houses, add some dices/rules and a measuring stick thingy... then play with them... simple, innit!

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

For our hobby to grow and prosper, we need to make it easy for new people to start.

To support my new book about painting WW2 Germans, I started a Facebook Group. This now has 874 members.

Facebook gives you a lot of statistics about the Age, Location and Gender of the group members. The average age of my Facebook group is about 50. 70% are from English speaking countries and 99% are men.

Only 15% are under 35. I suspect that the younger ones are focussed on Games Workshop rather historical wargames. I think it is very important to get younger people to join our hobby. Therefore easy access is essential and desirable.

[mcfonz]

Firstly - pretty sure 5,000 views isn't 'viral'.

The sad thing about it is that it isn't the people in this thread that are devisive - it's the original piece. I'm also not convinced about the 2nd blog post claiming it was a deliberate provocation either. It smacks of good old internet back peddling, mainly because it just suggests the title is challenging.

I'll tell you where the answer lies. I joined the hobby without knowing it as a child. Through my father I got into collecting and building models as well as figures. I liked to spend hours creating stories for them. For me that's where it started.

In the early '90's I found games workshop. Perhaps the fast food of wargaming. It wasn't untill I was into my late teens that I tried anything else, primarily because at that point GW moved from having so many experienced players playing in store to allow more space for newcomers.

The club I joined was predominantly historical and I got a rude awakening.

Since then my interests have been far more diverse, I still return to 40k (and feel this is the best edition in 10+ years) and other GW games.

But one thing for sure. Wargaming is not easier. It's more diverse. It's more popular. The challenges may have changed but they are still there. More choice doesn't mean 'easier'. It has become more accessible, more engaging and dare I say it, more appealing.

I see some gamers injecting fun into their games uncompromisingly. I challenge anyone to watch one of Levied Troops games at a show and not be attracted to the humour of several welcoming chaps in bounds of laughter for most of the day. I work with kids from challenging backgrounds and even they were drawn to that table above others.

Wargaming to me has always been about the 'experience' and being inclussive.

I have run games at salute for what will be five years this Salute and helped out with more before that. It drives me up the wall to see the huge lack of activity around some tables.

I'm mid 30's now. I still get excited about Salute, about playing games. I still have that buzz. It ebbs and flows.

However, I will say this - if you think wargaming/tabletop gaming is too easy compared to your experience 30 years ago, or that it should be made up of more challenges, more 'intellectually stimulating" then you need to go away and think harder. Because you are wrong.

I'm narked that a rules author didn't think a blog post like this through first - especially one of Osprey who's approach seems to be, and should be praised for, delivering decent rule sets on a budget.

Finally, I'll leave you with this reflection. When I joined the gaming club in my late teens, despite GW's drive in recruiting nw gamers, I was told it was a dying hobby. It was because of the challenges mentioned here thst it was dying. It was the same sort of guys saying it was dying as those now suggesting it should be more like the golden old days. Well it's more popular now than it ever has been in my memory. More diverse, more inclussive to all ages, sexes and genders. More open to play styles. It's not dying anymore. It's thriving.

[Artemis Black]

Firstly - pretty sure 5,000 views isn't 'viral'.

*smirk*

Did you know the guy who wrote The Room now permanently pretends he meant it to be funny from the start. Don't know what brought that to mind, just a random fact.

[mcfonz]

I'll tell you another interesting yet not viral fact.

On the random platypus community youtube channel you can find a whole host of wargaming pieces from reviews, tutorials to Salute montages. The most popular? I review of a dremel router table. When I say popular - 11k views and growing!!!!