15mm 80s G1 Transformers WIP

[Featherstone]

I think this should properly go here, but the Conflicts that Came in from the Cold people are welcome to comment as well.

I've taken the tack of a thread from two years ago and am buying up the old "Heroes of Cybertron" / "Super Collection Figures" line of Transformers toys -- pretty much the best representations of the classic 80s cartoon characters I've seen that aren't, you know, 1/24 scale or something. But instead of using them for 28mm, I'm aiming for 15mm, with the intention of adding some 80s US Army -slash- National Guard to combat them... or at least try to. Here's a size comparison for the Starscream/Thundercracker body with a 15mm fig from Alternative Armies:



Pretty good... not exactly to scale with a 1:100 F15, which should be his robot mode:



But that's kinda moot considering I'll have another Decepticon whose alt mode is a stereo.

MY REAL DILEMMA: What rules system do I use that allows both the Transformers and the National Guard to be played opposite one another? Plenty of rules systems include tanks and mechs, but these 'bots are sentients with characters traits... I'd like it to feel like that for the TF players, but provide some "realistic" or at any rate entertaining interaction with the NG players (or maybe I'll just play NG as gamemaster). Ideally a system capable of a three or four-game campaign ranging from one TF vs a small NG reaction force to a battle-royale 5 Autobots vs 5 Decepticons vs NG to match.

So yeah: What rules for G1 Autobots vs Decepticons vs 80s National Guard? Bonus points if you can give me a roster of 15mm stand-ins for G.I. Joe!!!

[SotF]

I'm not entirely sure how the rules would be tweaked down for it, but you could start with the Spycraft 2.0 rules. The Transmech stuff is pretty much transformers with names scrubbed off. If you can also find the tables for it, there used to be guidelines and rules for converting and creating things for the WotC Star Wars minis game from the rpg books which used a similar shift of the D20 System.

[FionaWhite]

Ganesha Games' Samurai Robots Battle Royale may work, it has rules for building your mechas aka Transformers in this case, the pilot rules could technically be used to represent the general skill of the Transformer in question or just ignored and there are rules for various army forces.

There is only one special transformation rule included (I don't know if they've made more available on their site?) into a flying saucer but it shouldn't be too difficult to design their alternate forms with the mecha creation rules where reasonable (the stereo might be stretching it  ) and just require an action for the transformation.

It also has some campaign rules including ones for possible repairs on the mechs happening or not happening between battles and using victory points won in battles for possible upgrades.
The army's out of luck with buying upgrades obviously, but assuming they actually win a match (or get some point from securing some objectives I suppose), they could always use their points for fielding more cannon fodder...

[DivisMal]

I second Ganesha Games‘ Samurai Robot Battle Royale. On the bonus side the rules are easily tweaked / combined with the Song of... series, so you simply add some fantasy traits to make GI Joes a bit larger than life.

[wellender]

Over on Facebook there has been someone stating up all the G1 Transformers for 7TV on the 7TV Group page.

[Featherstone]

Thanks for the help! Bought Ganesha Games’ “Samurai Robots Battle Royale” and “Flying Lead”, and Spycraft 2.0’s not-Transformers and not-GI Joe setting books.

Will definitely be looking into 7TV as well though; played it for the first time at Historicon 2017.

Still figuring out how NG player will be controlling enough cannon-fodder to match a single Decepticon (let alone several) in these systems, since they all seem to be tooled for small skirmish and I may need several squads, maybe a few tanks... will probably start a separate project thread once I get this up and going, and an article for the blog.



On a whim, would anybody who’s played Rogue Stars be willing to comment on that system, and how well it might fit? Giant robot on the cover makes me curious.

[DivisMal]

Rogue Stars may be a pretty good game (I own it, but haven’t played it, yet), but it’s based on d0 not d6 and considerably different. So it’s not easily converted to SoBH.

[Daeothar]

A very interesting idea, and coincidentally, I've been thinking of the very same thing earlier this week!

Actually, I was wondering if it would be possible to use a 1/100 or 1/144 F-15 model to build a Starscream (and/or derivatives) miniature for use in gaming.  I was thinking of a small skirmish game, with a handful of transformers on each side, with perhaps the Whitwicky's caught in the middle (they always got in trouble, so they'd make for a great objective).

Then followed the question of what models to use for all the other Transformers. And a short search on the interwebs threw up the very same miniatures you have been collecting.

That would certainly be the easiest (and best looking) way, but as you've shown, the scale is quite a bit smaller and I reckon that the manufacturer has been doing what Matchbox/Hotwheels have been doing for decades; box-scaled instead of accurately scaled.

So Bumblebee would then be about the same size as Thundercracker, which we , as original G1 fans (OG1's? ;P ) cannot accept of course

Now, I know that trying to apply accurate scaling (or even basic physics) to something like an eighties saturday morning cartoon is absolute folly (and even more so with Transformers, for obvious reasons), but (at least to me) some semblance of ' correctness'  should be adhered to.

So I was thinking even smaller than 15mm actually; perhaps 10mm? Because if you have big stompy robots duking it out in the Grand Canyon, zooming out would be a good thing, right?

Also, at 10mm, it would still be possible to get your hands on (somewhat) correctly scaled ground vehicles. perhaps Z Scale (1:220) would be a possibility too? certainly there would be ground vehicles available. It would ' just'  be a matter of scratchbuilding the bots themselves then.

But those that you have acquired certainly look good and it would be a right shame to not use them...

[Featherstone]

Ah, a con-patri-bot!

Actually they do differ slightly in size on some minis. Bumblebee is somewhat shorter (paired with boy Witwicky) and Fortress Maximus, Metroplex, and Devastator are slightly larger than standard. The last of those three is the only one I’m even considering buying as the other two are, well, either fortresses or carriers or cities or... too big.

10mm might be more to scale, you are correct. I’m setting  at “15mm” simply because I have a bit more in that scale already... civvies, some Chinese PLA, a bunch of sci-fi, and the list keeps growing. But if you could somehow match scale with the old Car Wars minis, I’d imagine you’ll find all the vehicle modes you’d ever need from them.

As for inter-TF scaling, yes, as I understand it, even in the show they were scaled to the toys rather than each other, and often shifted size due to error or intentionally (Megatron’s gun-mode, Soundwave as boombox). I’m fudging with that in mind, and relying on the abundance of HO-scale specific vehicle reproductions to get as exact as possible to the right vehicle modes for those not represented in gaming “15mm” ...1:87th isn’t that far off from a scale-shifted 15/18mm mini.

I have considered modeling the bots myself to a more accurate scaling, for molding or printing, but unfortunately haven’t yet taken the time to learn CAD to that degree. BUT I have been thinking about sculpting/casting some extra parts from epoxy and plastics... if you attempt the build yourself in either scale, I’d love to see the results.

Either way, I’m committed now... have Jazz, Bumble, Perceptor, Wheeljack, Starscream, Dirge, and Soundwave all en route... hunting for Prime and Megatron currently.

[boywundyrx]

Another fan of Ganesha Games's SRBR here.  With respect to your NG concern, in the SRBR rules the forces of humanity usually get the Weak rule applied to each squad or tank, so yeah, they do blow up fast unless you have enough of them.  But you can also have a Super Science Team on the table, to help even things up. Maybe take away the Weak trait too, and just give them a lower Combat value vs. the parts of the mecha. 

I'm usually statting up 50' mecha or 150' kaiju vs. a platoon of infantry, so not much is expected from the latter...  For my VOTOMS project, where it's basically powered armour rather than massive mechs, I went with Heavy Gear Blitz and designed my own stuff.  In the melee scale of the game, you have more detailed 1:1 combat.

For your GI Joe quest, there is a 15mm Cobra HISS tank available on Shapeways, or at least there was about 5 years ago when I got one.

Chris

[uti long smile]

I’ve been collecting the SCF range for a while too, planning for a 7TV game. Love the design and look of them. I had planned to use them with 28mm though.

[Featherstone]

boywundyrx Would be interested in giving HGB a read-thru... I’ve seen the minis but know practically nothing about the system itself. So is SRBR a bit too heavy for mecha v mecha?

uti long smile I think I’ve seen your work on the 7TV FB page! Will be watching for AARs and showcase posts...
I’ve heard things about the metal ball-joints on the pewter SCFs having easy breakage due to paint; any truth to it?

I believe I’ve rounded out the TF roster with a pewter Devastator, and PVC Megatron, Optimus Prime, Starscream, Soundwave, Dirge, Jazz, Perceptor, Wheeljack, and Bumblebee (Autobot Espionage Team). Now to save up for the vehicle modes...

[Featherstone]

UPDATE

All HOC minis (Devastator not pictured) have arrived besides Megatron... and (perspective makes it more difficult to tell but) they actually do vary in height. Bumblebee is 2/3 the standard height, and Dirge is probably the tallest of this bunch, followed by Starscream, then Thundercracker, then Optimus Prime, and so on.
Devastator is disappointingly not that much taller than standard height. I’ll still use him, at least until I get the guts to chop up a bunch of HO-scale construction vehicles.

And their eyes do glow in backlighting:



Hoping to repaint them — any thoughts on how to strip the original paint-work? They’re a really soft plastic... some sources say PVC.

[white knight]

Great figures! How thick is the original paint? If it's not to bad, I'd use it as a base and add shade and highlights.

[Featherstone]

Great figures! How thick is the original paint? If it's not to bad, I'd use it as a base and add shade and highlights.

I think they’ll work nicely. Paint’s fairly thin, with gaps on the heads for the eyes’  “light piping.” However it is a bit glossy... concerning in terms of how well it’ll take layers on top.