Anti Submarine Patrol Games

[robh]

Has anyone tried running aircraft vs submarine games? Thinking mainly of British Coastal Command  but USN patrols would presumably work the same way.

What style of game, which rules?

[Etranger]

Any such game as a tactical exercise is likely to be fairly brief:
If the aircraft sees the submarine first, it's a race to get within attack distance (bombs or depth charges) before the sub dives deep enough , which they usually promptly did. There was a fairy short period when the U-boat crews were encouraged to stay on the surface and fight it out, but that was an expensive exercise for all concerned. Most A/S aircrews never saw a submarine.

It won't do the aviation aspect in any detail as aerial patrols are a bit abstracted but Mal Wright's Convoy series https://clashofarms.com/Convoy.html are specifically intended for convoy actions & may be worthwhile for the setting & back ground. They're also fast play. I'm biased as I was one of the playtesters though!

[robh]

Any such game as a tactical exercise is likely to be fairly brief:

Yes, that was my thought too.

However I think there is scope for a wider game of trying to get U Boats through a patrol area with the Aircraft trying to locate and attack them. Then switch to a tactical encounter when (if) a submarine is spotted.
Probably require some method of hidden movement or umpire control for the U Boats and the whole thing played in mini campaign format. Could include surface vessels and German air cover also.

Not an area I have done much reading on hence looking for someone who may be doing this already.

[Mako]

I've done this, with 1/600th aircraft and subs.

Didn't bother with search phases, though you could bolt those on.

Ran mine during the "fight back" period, ordered by Adolf, and put a couple of subs on the tabletop, sailing in formation for mutual protection.  Gave them uprated flak guns to help.  Also, Ju-88C6s for top cover.

Pitted them against rocket firing Mossies, and a couple with those nice big cannons the "tse-tse" variant carried.  Good fun.

In real life, the pressure hulls of the subs can be surprisingly resilient, even when surfaced.

Some of the Mossies had to take on the Ju-88s, while the others went in after the subs.

We used Action Stations for the rules.

Good fun!

Sometimes, there would even be a third sub, and a surface escort too, by Sperrbrecher, VP Boats, etc..

[Etranger]

Yes, that was my thought too.

However I think there is scope for a wider game of trying to get U Boats through a patrol area with the Aircraft trying to locate and attack them. Then switch to a tactical encounter when (if) a submarine is spotted.
Probably require some method of hidden movement or umpire control for the U Boats and the whole thing played in mini campaign format. Could include surface vessels and German air cover also.

Not an area I have done much reading on hence looking for someone who may be doing this already.

Convoy may be what you're looking for then.

[carlos marighela]

I seem to recall doing something similar with Command at Sea, many, many, many years ago.

If you want something on-table tactical, then look at the use of Leigh lights or the later war, when centimetric radars were trumping the metric capabilities of the Metox detectors.

[robh]

Convoy looks very interesting (bit pricey shipped to Europe though) but is a different aspect of the Atlantic War than I want to try. Looks like it would be a great reference source.

I think the patrol/search aspect can be treated abstractly (like the Bomber stream in "Target for Tonight") with a U Boat and escort force passing through a series of zones which may or may not have search aircraft (and possibly including surface vessels) depending on the plan drawn up by the Coastal Command player.
Any contacts then moving to a game table and miniatures with appropriate rules, of which there are several that incorporate submarines, surface ships and aircraft. I think 1/600 aircraft and 1/1200 surface vessels.

There is enough information around on distances, aircraft ranges and flight durations to map out defences in advance (use of which could be randomised in a solo variant). Similarly with vessel speeds.
Need some random events for weather, RAF attacks on pens, Mines and such.
Playable as a campaign game with U Boats having to get out of base and then back in again with their actions as part of a wolfpack or solo hunter whilst away from base accruing victory points "out of game".

Please, feel free to jump in with any thoughts or experiences.