*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 24, 2019, 01:18:27 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Members
  • Total Members: 8080
  • Latest: Garm
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1326803
  • Total Topics: 93795
  • Online Today: 281
  • Online Ever: 1136
  • (July 19, 2019, 06:36:21 PM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION  (Read 19217 times)

Offline Plynkes

  • The Royal Bastard
  • Supporting Adventurer
  • galactic brain
  • *
  • Posts: 9097
  • I killed Mufasa!
    • http://misterplynkes.blogspot.com/
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #150 on: February 22, 2019, 07:39:00 PM »
In the past the themed rounds have been non-compulsory, meaning you can ignore them of you don't mind taking a little hit to your points ranking in the table.


However, there was one compulsory themed round last year, part of the shake-up to the format that occurred. It was towards the end in the knock-out phase as I recall, so it didn't affect all the participants.  If memory serves someone had to pull out because they couldn't make it, but I may be wrong. Don't know if we'll be doing that again, but personally I didn't find it onerous, and luckily managed to complete the entry with figures in my existing collection. Not sure how I feel about the concept, but I can see why some were against it.

Thálatta! Thálatta!

Offline Nord

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 937
    • Hobby Horse blog
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #151 on: February 22, 2019, 08:46:05 PM »
A compulsory themed round would almost certainly deter me. A voluntary theme has always worked in the past, can't really see a good reason why it was changed.

Offline Plynkes

  • The Royal Bastard
  • Supporting Adventurer
  • galactic brain
  • *
  • Posts: 9097
  • I killed Mufasa!
    • http://misterplynkes.blogspot.com/
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #152 on: February 22, 2019, 08:55:13 PM »
That specific round really had to be compulsory if it was to have any meaning at all. As it was a knock-out round if it hadn't been compulsory then everyone could have safely ignored the theme, as there were no points at stake. That would have rendered it pointless, but it did mean a rather big break with tradition.

I suppose that highlights that tinkering with the format can create odd ripples in the rest of the contest if we aren't careful. I think it was slightly unfortunate that this came about, though as I said, it didn't actually affect me personally at all.


Offline Dr Mathias

  • LPL Champion (S6,S7) Bronze Medalist (S5)
  • Supporting Adventurer
  • scatterbrained genius
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
  • Purveyor of the one-and-only Miracle Elixir!
    • Dr. Mathias's Miniature Extravaganza
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #153 on: February 23, 2019, 05:22:34 PM »
There have been quite a few changes to the rules of the LPL over the years. When the editing/montage restriction was put in place I was somewhat unhappy at the time, but I am convinced it was for the best for many reasons. In addition to leveling the playing field, it introduced a need to get much better at composition and creativity and as a result my photography got a lot better.

The 'spirit' of the LPL was to get stuff painted, and I think most people are in it for that reason. Sure the competition part is high priority for some people (there was a couple years where I was all-in) but now I just like the personal challenge of getting 80+ minis knocked out within a contest run :) The compulsory round and knock-out format sort of seemed counter to the initial concept of the event.

I guess I'd look at it from the 'spirit' perspective when deciding where to take it, but I'm happy to work within whatever the format is.

… a mixture of quick parts, sarcastic humour, reserve, and caprice.
Dr. Mathias's Miniature Extravaganza

Offline TaltosVT

  • assistant
  • Posts: 26
    • Lost in The Grants
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #154 on: February 23, 2019, 06:35:34 PM »
I'm new to the forum this year, so I'm just getting familiar with LPL.  I like the idea, and I'd love to see another one run.  Looking back at past years, it seems that Season 12 participation was an anomaly.  Personally, I'm not crazy about the knock-out round version, as it removes the majority of the participants who had been playing along.

All that said, I'm a pretty slow painter, so I'm not sure if I could keep up in order to participate.  If adding my name to the hat helps though, I'm willing to give it a shot.

-Elroy


"The gods of the valley are not the gods of the hills, and you shall understand it." ~Ethan Allen

Offline Donkeymilkman

  • assistant
  • Posts: 24
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #155 on: February 23, 2019, 07:21:23 PM »

All that said, I'm a pretty slow painter, so I'm not sure if I could keep up in order to participate.  If adding my name to the hat helps though, I'm willing to give it a shot.


I second that.
Lead is the solution to all problems. No plastic - no problem.

“We don't make mistakes, just happy little accidents.” ...

“There's nothing wrong with having a tree as a friend.” ...
Bob Ross

Offline Orctrader

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • scatterbrained genius
  • *
  • Posts: 3118
    • Orctrader's Painted Figures
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #156 on: February 23, 2019, 09:07:58 PM »
Before season 11 concluded I had decided I wouldn’t enter LPL12.  Decision made to take a break the changed format passed me by.
 
Only those of us who have taken part know the commitment involved and I personally struggled toward the end of LPL11 and my enjoyment waned as a result.

If there is another one in 2019 I would try to participate but with current work commitments I couldn’t make any promises.

As for my views on the format\rules I’d try to just go with it, but if you’re looking for suggestions, the simpler the better.  The original concept seemed best summed up as “paint 5 figures, photograph, enter, repeat”  For me that is quite exhausting enough without further complications.   ::)


Offline Admiral Benbow

  • The Queen's Own Gizmologist
  • Moderator
  • scatterbrained genius
  • *
  • Posts: 2715
  • "Creativity is a drug I cannot live without."
    • http://www.mini-universe.de/index.html
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #157 on: February 24, 2019, 04:42:13 PM »
In 4 days we had around 18 people talking about another LPL here. That's not much, isn't it? But perhaps many members are not aware about this discussion at all, so I started a poll just a minute ago, let's see if we get more opinions in through that way ...

Offline Captain Blood

  • Global Moderator
  • elder god
  • Posts: 16155
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #158 on: February 24, 2019, 04:44:37 PM »
Good idea Michael  :)

Offline Nord

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 937
    • Hobby Horse blog
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #159 on: February 24, 2019, 11:19:47 PM »
Maybe highlight it at the top of the forum? in the News section.

Offline Dolmot

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • mastermind
  • *
  • Posts: 1364
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #160 on: February 25, 2019, 12:03:34 AM »
The 'spirit' of the LPL was to get stuff painted, and I think most people are in it for that reason. Sure the competition part is high priority for some people (there was a couple years where I was all-in) but now I just like the personal challenge of getting 80+ minis knocked out within a contest run :) The compulsory round and knock-out format sort of seemed counter to the initial concept of the event.

The spirit aspect (and the league's development over years) is worth bringing up. Just for the sake of going back to the roots, I think this is the original rules post of season 1, later recycled and possibly edited for seasons 2 & 3. Some quotes:
Quote
Of course, painting quality is a key point, but the competitors will also score points for the number of figures they produce – a good balance between the two will prove most successful, but it will provide good chances for gamers AND painters alike. We cannot comment if this is as good an idea as it sounds, but remember, the focus is on “fun” – time will tell, and don´t take it too seriously!
Quote
The entry picture may NOT be a collage of individual pictures, but should be a "group shot" of the complete team, possibly in a decorated environment, or in front of a plain backdrop.
Quote
You do NOT have to enter a new team in every new Round, but you are ALLOWED to do so. You may compete with a single team for the whole season

Actually, the rules (as written) haven't really changed that much over the years. However, I'd dare to say that the league became a bit of a victim of its own success as people started to push for more and more presentable teams and scenes. At some point it became almost an unwritten rule that new teams are expected. Any repeats started to cause slight disappointment among voters. Later at least three new teams became mandatory. The ratio of terrain scenes vs plain backdrops was also increasing every year. In a few (fortunately rare) cases I even managed to get quite blunt feedback for posting a rushed photo and thus failing to meet someone's quality expectations.

In short, the expectations went up and I feel that some potential attendees (or even old-timers who no longer could keep up with their previous standard) started to find that daunting. The rules barely changed, but the trends did.

I have participated maybe six times. Last year I had to skip for various reasons, including working on an army project that just couldn't be turned into LPL entries in any sensible way. To be honest, I wasn't very happy with the knock-out or mandatory theme concepts either. The bonus themes were also difficult to match with anything I had on my project list. Looks like this year I'll skip the army projects instead so there might be room for good old five guy teams. Let's see.

I could go on, but it's getting late so let me leap to one key point: As long as LPL is a league and there's scoring, the competitive aspect is already there. I don't think it should be emphasised any further. Instead, we should try to make the league truly inclusive and welcoming, and really get that message through. One friend of mine tends to repeat that "every painted miniature makes the world a better place", which should be the primary goal. Knock-out rounds brought in more competition and less painting, which IMO was the wrong direction. Just try to celebrate anything that gets painted and posted, no matter if it's not exactly top 10 material.

Regarding the number of entries and the schedule, maybe there's no need to change anything, because repeats are still entirely legit - at least in the rules as written, right? The original "one team for the entire league" extreme case may feel a bit too distant today, but isn't five or six still fine - also in practice - if we just decide so?

That's all for now. I'll try to post more at some point. The last few weeks have just been total murder due to our annual Republic of Rome game, the Tactica trip, one funeral and all that, hence I have to clear up various backlogs. Today I'm already painting something, though. :)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 12:07:29 AM by Dolmot »

Offline khartoum2

  • scientist
  • Posts: 308
Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 12 - GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #161 on: March 03, 2019, 11:38:19 AM »
Sorry started all this then vanished for a while but was away without WiFi grrr

Can't comment on FB as don't have a profile.
re alternate 2 weeks can't quite see how this would come together for the two sides.  Longer periods I think would lose interest in voters quickly as they would forget when new round starts.
Off to find the vote and cast mine