Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)

[vodkafan]

Forgive me starting another Napoleonic thread, but in hindsight I didn't phrase my first one correctly...
here is what I want to do: I want to field big battalions in 28mm scale at 1:20 , so that means 36 or even 48 figure battalions; BUT I don't have the space or the time to play divisional level games. I want just a brigade's worth of figures a side, say 4 battalions plus a cavalry regiment and a battery of artillery. That in itself could be 200 figures, which is in itself a major commitment for me ( and my pal who has agreed to do the madness with me!)
The trouble is, there doesn't seem to be anything out there at all pitched at this  Brigade level , with the company as the smallest unit . I have been looking at upscaling ""big skirmish" rules like Sharp Practice or downscaling divisional rules like General de Brigade but am in a bit of a limbo to be honest... I do realise that what I am looking for is a "quart in a pint pot" type of thing, and it's something I keep coming up against in almost every period I want to game...but surely I can't be the only one to think about it?
Has anybody else tackled this? Any suggestions as to rulesets?

[Leapsnbounds]

What Dejau Vu!  It sounds like "Column, Line  Square" all over again.

[vodkafan]

What Dejau Vu!  It sounds like "Column, Line  Square" all over again.

Is that a ruleset?
[edit] OK found it. One link out of six on deep fried happy mice worked and I now have CLS version 2 on pdf

[Norm]

4 - 6 units per side would fit into the One Hour Wargames book from Neil Thomas. The rules are fairly generic, but easily tinkered with. They are very light at just a couple of pages long. It depends on what you want as to whether that is a good or bad thing.

[vodkafan]

4 - 6 units per side would fit into the One Hour Wargames book from Neil Thomas. The rules are fairly generic, but easily tinkered with. They are very light at just a couple of pages long. It depends on what you want as to whether that is a good or bad thing.

Hi Normsmith , when you say 4-6 "units" what do you mean exactly? OK I will google One Hour Wargames

[jon_1066]

If a basic unit is a battalion then you have 4 infantry units (battalions), 1 cavalry unit and 1 artillery unit.

I also came up against the same issue but in 6 mm.  There doesn't really appear to be a ruleset aimed at this scale of game, ie roughly 1:600 ground scale, 1 brigade in size.

[Romark]

Pm sent

[vodkafan]

If a basic unit is a battalion then you have 4 infantry units (battalions), 1 cavalry unit and 1 artillery unit.

I also came up against the same issue but in 6 mm.  There doesn't really appear to be a ruleset aimed at this scale of game, ie roughly 1:600 ground scale, 1 brigade in size.

OK yes, that is what I meant. But my smallest unit will be the company

[SteveBurt]

There's a set at this scale in Paddy Griffith's book 'Napoleonic Wargaming for fun'
He has a series of sets at different scales.

Otherwise, General de Brigade might fit the bill; it's designed for bigger games, but it is at 1:20 scale, and is pretty detailed, so may be what you are looking for.

[vodkafan]

@SteveBurt: Thanks Steve yes, I have been looking at General de Brigade/Armee. The basing is just what I want but players over on the lardy forum have expressed doubts it will downscale very well.

[jon_1066]

OK yes, that is what I meant. But my smallest unit will be the company

That's a lot of units.  4 Battalions could be thirty companies.  A game with 30+ units will tend to bog down.  No matter the scale the best number of manoeuvre elements in a game is usually in the region of 6 - 15.  Also what do you gain by having companies as your basic units?  They usually wouldn't operate as such except in unusual situations.  You could perhaps have the ability to shed companies for specific things (eg deploying skirmishers or holding a building) instead.  eg look at the 6 mm Waterloo thread.  He has modified General de Brigade and fought the actions at Hougemont, etc with Companies defending.

[vodkafan]

That's a lot of units.  4 Battalions could be thirty companies.  A game with 30+ units will tend to bog down.  No matter the scale the best number of manoeuvre elements in a game is usually in the region of 6 - 15.  Also what do you gain by having companies as your basic units?  They usually wouldn't operate as such except in unusual situations.  You could perhaps have the ability to shed companies for specific things (eg deploying skirmishers or holding a building) instead.  eg look at the 6 mm Waterloo thread.  He has modified General de Brigade and fought the actions at Hougemont, etc with Companies defending.

 What do I gain by having coys as the smallest units? Well, first of all I hope it will look pretty on the tabletop!
Secondly, I want to show the difference between coys of different nationalities by the way they are based, and to see if it makes a difference to game play.
Thirdly, I want to be able to move them around to make the different formations, column, line , square at the right time in a battle. What if a company or two fails to act on an order or doesn't get the order? That is interesting.

I looked at the thread of the 6mm Waterloo thread, and am currently digesting his blog. It appears he has replaced the Command and Control mechanisms of Gd'B with that of a different game altogether. I haven't got to where he is activating individual companies yet, I am interested in how he does that.

[boywundyrx]

Not quite the exact game scale you're looking at, but there's Song of Drums and Shakos Large Battle (as opposed to the very small skirmish game), which is a division per side.

http://www.ganeshagames.net/product_info.php?products_id=164

Chris

[IronDuke596]

I use General de brigade for my War of 1812 games and it works quite well. GdeB was designed for divsional level battles, which is ideal for the War of 1812. Most battle are divional level or less, in fact many engagements were brigade size or less. As units were frequnetly smaller than battalions, I have incorporated an older GdeB version of the musketry table to reflect units a small as five figures.

GdeB is highly recommended for small napoleonic era battles (vice skirmishes).

[jon_1066]

What do I gain by having coys as the smallest units? Well, first of all I hope it will look pretty on the tabletop!
Secondly, I want to show the difference between coys of different nationalities by the way they are based, and to see if it makes a difference to game play.
Thirdly, I want to be able to move them around to make the different formations, column, line , square at the right time in a battle. What if a company or two fails to act on an order or doesn't get the order? That is interesting.

I looked at the thread of the 6mm Waterloo thread, and am currently digesting his blog. It appears he has replaced the Command and Control mechanisms of Gd'B with that of a different game altogether. I haven't got to where he is activating individual companies yet, I am interested in how he does that.

Well you could still do those things with Battalions as your units and companies as elements within those units.  It would simplify command and control and activations.