*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 29, 2024, 09:32:15 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Recent

Author Topic: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)  (Read 6245 times)

Offline vodkafan

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3510
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2018, 06:50:14 PM »
Lots of good advice and rulesets I didn't know about before, thanks all!
I am going to build a wargames army, a big beautiful wargames army, and Mexico is going to pay for it.

2019 Painting Challenge :
figures bought: 500+
figures painted: 57
9 vehicles painted
4 terrain pieces scratchbuilt

Offline LawnRanger

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 199
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2018, 08:16:16 PM »
Hi Vodkafan
      yes thats what we did  with command and control ..

  No set of rules is set in stone If you dont like something in it change it to your style of gaming .. :)

But i must say play General de Brigade as it is  and you will not go far wrong in my eyes.

 happy gaming dave.v

Offline duc de limbourg

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 353
  • aldegarde.blogspot.com
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2018, 07:42:46 AM »
Black Powder is used for company level in de AWI supplement book. See no problem for the napoleonic period.
When going for the company level I would use one rank instead of the double rank most "mordern' rules use

Offline Littlearmies

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 210
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2018, 09:04:51 AM »
Black Powder is used for company level in de AWI supplement book. See no problem for the napoleonic period.
When going for the company level I would use one rank instead of the double rank most "mordern' rules use

Why the one rank?

Personally I've enjoyed going to a lower level with 'Chef de Battalion' - 1:5 figure ratios and just a couple of battalions, a squadron of cavalry and a section of guns per side. Company drill and terrain give you a much greater appreciation of the difficulty of managing a regiment (or even a battalion) on the field.

Offline duc de limbourg

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 353
  • aldegarde.blogspot.com
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2018, 09:55:57 AM »
one rank because imho when you have a company of 120men in 1:20 scale = 6 figures or even smaller (eg 80 = 4 figures) it looks better in one rank.
but just imho.

Offline Littlearmies

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 210
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2018, 01:44:48 PM »
Then we differ  :)

I favour two ranks and any battalion smaller than 24 figures is just too small to look good.

Offline LawnRanger

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 199
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2018, 08:49:52 PM »
duc de limbourg
    I think you are missing the point here we are not talking about skirmishing games  of a few coys
we are talking about 4-8 battalions per side  on table with 24- 40 figs per Bn.. .

as for putting a 40 fig guards regiment in a single fig. line that would be around 60 cm - 2 ft long and it just would not work. .

  Can you imagine a brigade of british in 3 lines  covering 6ft and then you would get 3-4 french bn in tight  column  of 2 coy wide 3 deep on a small a frontage of 9cm. they could all hit the same battalion and the british at the ends could not have the range or the angle to give supporting firer

 Thats why there are no rules that puts Bn in a single fig line when you have 24 + figs in a unit it will just not work! It will not run right as the scale will be all a miss as well.. most close order volley in 28mm are around 9-12 and thats just half the lenght of your single bn line.. 

I have to go with Littlearmies on this one :)      single figs in a line  :(

happy gaming LR

Offline SteveBurt

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1283
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2018, 10:45:00 AM »
Single rank of figures gives a more accurate footprint, but it looks terrible, IMO. More like a skirmish line.
I'd always favour 2 ranks. If you want a better foot[print, go with large units like the Charles Grant or Peter Young rules, which have 50 or more figures in a battalion

Offline vodkafan

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3510
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2018, 12:19:56 PM »
duc de limbourg
    I think you are missing the point here we are not talking about skirmishing games  of a few coys
we are talking about 4-8 battalions per side  on table with 24- 40 figs per Bn.. .

as for putting a 40 fig guards regiment in a single fig. line that would be around 60 cm - 2 ft long and it just would not work. .

  Can you imagine a brigade of british in 3 lines  covering 6ft and then you would get 3-4 french bn in tight  column  of 2 coy wide 3 deep on a small a frontage of 9cm. they could all hit the same battalion and the british at the ends could not have the range or the angle to give supporting firer

 Thats why there are no rules that puts Bn in a single fig line when you have 24 + figs in a unit it will just not work! It will not run right as the scale will be all a miss as well.. most close order volley in 28mm are around 9-12 and thats just half the lenght of your single bn line.. 

I have to go with Littlearmies on this one :)      single figs in a line  :(

happy gaming LR

Yes I was a little surprised by Duc de limbourg's post, I think he may have got the wrong end of the stick about what I am after....My French bns will be about 40 strong and the largest full strength British battalion (52nd) will be 48 figures..the smallest battalions  will be about 33. 

Offline jon_1066

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 909
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2018, 01:16:08 PM »
duc de limbourg
    I think you are missing the point here we are not talking about skirmishing games  of a few coys
we are talking about 4-8 battalions per side  on table with 24- 40 figs per Bn.. .

as for putting a 40 fig guards regiment in a single fig. line that would be around 60 cm - 2 ft long and it just would not work. .

  Can you imagine a brigade of british in 3 lines  covering 6ft and then you would get 3-4 french bn in tight  column  of 2 coy wide 3 deep on a small a frontage of 9cm. they could all hit the same battalion and the british at the ends could not have the range or the angle to give supporting firer

 Thats why there are no rules that puts Bn in a single fig line when you have 24 + figs in a unit it will just not work! It will not run right as the scale will be all a miss as well.. most close order volley in 28mm are around 9-12 and thats just half the lenght of your single bn line.. 

I have to go with Littlearmies on this one :)      single figs in a line  :(

happy gaming LR

But that would reflect the actual ground scale better. 

A guards Battalion of 1000 would take up about 280 m, a French column by division would take up 70 m.  Assuming 20 mm per figure gives you 800 mm for the guards of 40 figures and 200 mm for the assault column (of 30 figures) if a French Company is 5 figures and a guard company 4.  This gives a rough ground scale of 1:350.

The depths of both formations are still excessive with that ground scale.  The British will take up 20 mm but should be less than 10 and the French will be 60 mm but should be about 35 mm.

If you go with deeper formations then the ground scale will go up (to get the "correct" length of line) so the depth of units will be even more exaggerated. 

eg a two deep line would give a British Battalion 400 mm long and 40 mm deep.  That ground scale is 1:700 so the line should only be 4 mm deep - it wasn't called the thin red line for nothing.  As for the Battalion in assault column that should now be less than 20 mm deep but will in fact be 120 mm deep.  By doubling up on the depth you are creating an entirely false picture of what a Napoleonic battle looked like.  Stack a few battalions together to get a regimental column and it will take up a socking 480 mm when in reality it should be 70 mm.

edit. The firing distance of 12" for a musket is about right with a 600 mm line.  Maximum range of a musket with any hope of hitting anything was less than 150 yards which is about half the length of the British Guards in Line.  The muskets literally couldn't hit a barn door at ranges greater than that so a large unit in line  couldn't shoot from one end to other with any chance of hitting anything.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 04:10:06 PM by jon_1066 »

Offline vodkafan

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3510
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2018, 04:11:35 PM »
I think the only time wargames get anywhere near a realistic ground scale is 6mm or smaller. I don't worry about ground scale at all.

Offline LawnRanger

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 199
Re: Brigade level Napoleonic games (using big battalions)
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2018, 07:03:10 AM »
Right on Brother  :)looks like we singing from the same sheet !

Look at 28mm WW2 of flames of war !

like i said take a good look at General de brigade,,

End of the day ,horses for courses ,play how you want to play the game bugger the rest off us  :)

happy gaming Dave.v