Sellswords vs Rangers of Shadow Deep. Head to head games. Conclusions.

[Sunjester]

Something I've toyed with for low-level 1 HP foes is to give them an armour save (like the armoured guards and militia in the Count Carialis Curse supplement). If they save (usually a 5+ or 6 on a d6) they are knocked down, not killed. I have yet to try it in a game and see if makes things too difficult for the PCs.

[shandy]

Thanks for your reports and your considered thoughts. I've played a lot of Sellswords during the last year and agree with your conclusions: the occasional game may be a dud, but then there are games that are truly fantastic. I think the randomness helps to create unique narratives.

I did buy RoSD though and will use it for ideas.

Is there a place to swap scenarios and ideas for the game? The Ganesha Games Yahoo Group seems a bit deserted, and I don't really like Facebook for those kind of things as it's hard to find older material...

[spect_spidey]

I appreciate the comparison, Ethelred has stated that they have played far more Sellswords than Rangers. I think this could give a bias.

I myself have not played either game, but am familiar with base systems used by both authors. I own several Ganesha games including Rogue Stars that was published by Osprey Games. However I have only ever played Rogue Stars. I didn't care for it. I read SoBH and MDRG but never attempted to play them as the overall systems and feel didn't appeal to me. Likewise I own almost every book for Frostgrave that Rangers is based off of and have played a lot of Frostgrave. So I feel that my opinion would be geared towards Rangers. I also get the impression that the two games are like comparing apples to oranges. Sellswords appears to be more about the combat and can get bogged down in it. Rangers seems to be more about the story, discovering clues, and resource management. I could easily see someone taking some of the greatest fantasy rpg modules and converting them to Rangers missions, almost making it an rpg. I am not familiar enough with Sellswords to determine if the same could be said for it.

Is there anyone who has no experience with either? Or someone who has played an equal amount of games from both that could weigh in? I would be interested in their thoughts.

[andyskinner]

I think SoBH (known as Song of Blazing Heroes around here) is elegant, but I always want to use it for a few more than it was intended.  I think it almost stretches to where I want, but not quite.

Similarly, both of the games you've revealed look neat, and I'd like to try a co-op game (no interest in solo).  But I'd like each to have a hero and a few groups of figures, rather than a hero and a few figures.

I know it is easier to use a few of my figures for a smaller game than it is for someone with fewer to buy more for a larger one.  But I'd still like to see how to make warband sized games (large skirmish) work well as co-op.

A quick fantasy game on the dining table does appeal, though.

Thanks for the reviews.

andy

[Arundel]

Out of curiosity, how many antagonists would be needed in a typical game? And how many degrees of danger are there to them? What I mean is, are there sword-fodder orcs, Uruk types, champions? Is the most dangerous foe a troll? I only ask because it helps give a feel if my collections can cover the games! 

Thank you again for taking the time to review them!

[Andrew_McGuire]

Hmmm, just went to Ganesha's website and it looks like Sellswords and the cards are only available as pdfs? I hate pdfs. What a shame! 

A print on demand copy can be bought from www.lulu.com. I'm just waiting for one of their special offers.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Spect-Spidey, while I suspect the greater familiarity with SS&SS introduces bias after my first read of Rangers I actually thought that was going to be my game and on the face of it seemed, in my mind, a game that would suit me more.  This does show the importance of playing a few games rather than reviewing rules having only read them.  The mechanics are different, but I would argue that in many respects both games aim to do much the same thing.  SS&SS can be more narrative, it depends on how you make the scenario - the scenarios in Sellswords for me are a bit naff and Rangers has done a great job of making a coherent mini-campaign.

Arundel - you can use whatever you want, really.  With a more Middle Earth focus I use a variety of orcs (my own stats), werewolves, wargs, bears, trolls etc.  I have made stats for a small dragon.  In the standard SS&SS game there are many of the usual D&D type humanoid races with trolls, minor demons, undead, wizards, necromancers.  Rangers has a relatively small bestiary but it is very easy to pull in creatures from Frostgrave.  Sellswords will need more figures, especially if you are using lowly 1 HP horde creatures.  In Rangers even the least of your enemies can be deadly, so fewer are needed. 
In one game of Sellswords using standard rules/setting and one of the scenarios in the book I managed to exhaust my supply of trolls and had to substitute in treemen.  Unless you want the ground littered with the dead you probably need 15-20 of your favourite horde creatures and a few larger creatures.  Rangers will require perhaps only 10 standard humanoids and one or two nastier creatures.  Rangers scenarios tend to have undead and spiders somewhere in the mix.

As much as I have commented on modifying Sellswords, one could just as easily modify Rangers if they wanted a more random monster activation/movement.

To reiterate a comment I made in the main report, Rangers is neater, more polished and ordered.  Sellswords tends to be more chaotic and full of surprises. 

My comments have been from a solo gaming perspective and these games may feel very different from a cooperative point of view.  I also suspect Rangers would be the easier game to teach and pick up.

[Arundel]

That's immensely helpful, thank you!

[The Bibliophile]

Quick question, Ethelred: Are you using sticky/poster tack to keep those little dice affixed to the tokens? That seems like an immensely sensible approach! Also, did you hand paint the tokens? I particularly like the one that's under the base of the female spellcaster...

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Goodness, this is reviving an old thread
Yes, using Blu Tack to stick down the dice - not particularly elegant, but easy.
The tokens are hand painted - splotches of blood, flames and some sort of blue energy type thingy.  The small tokens are Renedra bases, the larger ones came from a pack of poker chips.  I also use the poker chips to base larger figures.  Cheap but effective.