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Author Topic: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?  (Read 472 times)

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

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Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« on: April 16, 2018, 05:29:45 AM »
Hi

I am trying to figure it out what type troop would represent best Indian Mutiny Sepoys in the ruleset The Men Who Would Be Kings. I was thinking that less well organized Sepoys could be represented as Irregulars, while those units that preserved cohesion and a chain of command could be considered as Regulars with obsolete weapons -to represent they carried muskets instead Enfield rifles- Or would be more accurate to represent them also as Irregulars but as Elites, i.e. with better Discipline?

The options could be as follows:

Option A: Well ordered Sepoys - Regular, Poorly Armed (Antiquated Musket), - 5 pts
Option B: Well ordered Sepoys - Irregular, Poorly Armed (Antiquated Musket), Veteran (discipline +1) - 4 pts

Other troops would be:

- Undisciplined Sepoys: Irregular, Poorly Armed (Antiquated Musket) - 3 pts
- Bengal, Oudh or Gwalior Horse - Irregular, Unenthusiastic - 3 pts.
- Princes' Matchlockmen, Badmashes, ecc - Tribal Infantry, maybe 1 in 3 could be considered Veteran to represent better ordered warriors, maybe with an influx from former Sepoys. - 3 or 4 pts

What do you think would make more sense? Option A or B?

Offline DeltaBlue

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Re: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 11:33:28 AM »

I would go for both


option A for early battles, 
option B for late battles,

as for elite either keep that for still disciplined unit in late battles or for sepoy rifle/light companies, possible upgrade them  to rifled muskets to represent Brunswick/baker rifles 




 
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Offline Antonio J Carrasco

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Re: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 01:32:26 PM »
Good advice... I had forgot that light companies carried rifles. Thanks

Offline WillieB

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Re: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 03:12:52 PM »
Don't forget that in the early battles in the Indian Mutiny both sides had the 1842 musket. Enfilelds were in short supply and usually only issued to flank companies. Madras Fusiliers are an exception of course. They all had Enfields.
Panic, Chaos and Disorder. My job here is done

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

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  • Posts: 256
Re: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 04:07:15 PM »
Don't forget that in the early battles in the Indian Mutiny both sides had the 1842 musket. Enfilelds were in short supply and usually only issued to flank companies. Madras Fusiliers are an exception of course. They all had Enfields.

Yep, I knew. Actually, I was thinking that regular British units armed with muskets should be classified as Regular, Obsolete Muskets, Fierce. That would represent pretty well their willingness to close with the bayonet instead stopping to shot.

Offline DeltaBlue

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Re: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 09:49:50 AM »
. Enfilelds were in short supply and usually only issued to flank companies.

so

HM centre companies, Regular, Obsolete Muskets, Fierce
HM flank companies elite, rifled Muskets, Fierce + marksman(for lights)+ veteran (for grenadier)

added plus it would lower the scale of what units represent and give the feel of the period

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

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  • Posts: 256
Re: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 11:02:01 AM »
so

HM centre companies, Regular, Obsolete Muskets, Fierce
HM flank companies elite, rifled Muskets, Fierce + marksman(for lights)+ veteran (for grenadier)

added plus it would lower the scale of what units represent and give the feel of the period

Yeah, I think that would be about right.

I am still trying to figure it out Loyal Sepoy units, especially how to differentiate between units like the Corps of Guides, Hodson's Horse or Ferozepore (Rattray's) Sikhs... Irregular would look as the way to go, at first glance, but it wouldn't reflect the aggression of Hodson's nor the professionality of the Guides. Also, I need to think how to represent ad-hoc formations of officers and civilians that operated, mostly, from June to September 1857.

Offline DeltaBlue

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  • wait who planted the claymore?!?
Re: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 12:56:00 PM »
I am still trying to figure it out Loyal Sepoy units, especially how to differentiate between units like the Corps of Guides, Hodson's Horse or Ferozepore (Rattray's) Sikhs... Irregular would look as the way to go, at first glance, but it wouldn't reflect the aggression of Hodson's nor the professionality of the Guides. Also, I need to think how to represent ad-hoc formations of officers and civilians that operated, mostly, from June to September 1857.

well I would break it down like this

Loyal BNI units (these are either complete units who did not rebel) so;
Loyal BNI units- Regular, Poorly Armed (Antiquated Musket) Unenthusiastic (to represent mixed feelings of troops)
Loyal BNI units light company - Regular, rifled musket, Unenthusiastic (to represent mixed feelings of troops) (maybe 1 unit only)

Loyal sepoys (these would-be Ad-hoc formations of still loyal to their salt or to an officer)
 Irregular, Poorly Armed (Antiquated Musket), then either marksman, veteran or Fierce (again justified any by the game situations)

PIF, guides, Gurkha, Sikh other infantry units
Regular, Poorly Armed (Antiquated Musket) Fierce
Upgrade, to rifled musket (Gurkha, and Coke's Rifles) any of the following marksman, veteran or Fierce
other civil, police, militia infantry units
irregular, Poorly Armed (Antiquated Musket) Unenthusiastic

PIF, guides, Sikh cavalry
Regular Fierce

as to officers and civilians volunteer units that's tricky  as a rule of thumb, keep them irregular, but maybe add the  veteran or Fierce.

as to what they are armed with I would "mix"



Offline Antonio J Carrasco

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Re: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 05:59:20 PM »
Those are very good suggestions.

I believe I have enough material to prepare a first draft of Field Forces for the Indian Mutiny. I will post it here once it is finished.

Thanks for your help, by the way.

Offline DeltaBlue

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  • wait who planted the claymore?!?
Re: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2018, 09:14:06 AM »
Those are very good suggestions.

I believe I have enough material to prepare a first draft of Field Forces for the Indian Mutiny. I will post it here once it is finished.

Thanks for your help, by the way.

no worries, just happy to help,  hope I didn't just info dump.

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

  • scientist
  • Posts: 256
Re: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2018, 11:04:50 AM »
Well, here there is my first draft on an Army list for the Mutiny, using The Men Who Would be Kings. Comments are welcomed!

May-September 1857

Infantry

British Foot (Centre companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete Muskets), Fierce. – 6 pts
British Foot (Flank companies - Grenadiers) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete muskets) Fierce, Elite – 7 pts
British Foot (Flank companies – Lights) – Regular, Fierce, Sharpshooters – 9 pts
Loyal BNI (Centre companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete Muskets), Unenthusiastic – 4 pts
Loyal BNI (Flank companies) – Regular, Unenthusiastic, Poorly armed (obsolete rifles) – 4 pts. Maximum 1 per each 24 pts.
Ghurkas – Regular, Poorly Armed (Obsolete Muskets) – 5 pts
Sikhs – Irregular, Poorly armed (Obsolete muskets), Veteran – 4 pts
Guides infantry – Regular, Poorly Armed (Obsolete muskets) Elite – 6 pts
HEIC European infantry (1st Madras; Flank company) – Regular, Sharpshooters – 8 pts. Maximum 1 per each 24 pts.
HEIC European infantry (1st Madras; Centre companies) – Regular – 6 pts.
HEIC European infantry (Other regiments; Flank companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete rifles), Sharpshooters – 6 pts. Maximum 1 per each 24 pts.
HEIC European infantry (Other regiments; Centre companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete muskets) – 5 pts.
European Volunteers – Tribal, Veteran, fierce – 5 pts

Horse

British – Regular, Elite, Lancers and Guard regiments – 9 pts
Loyal BNC – Irregular, Unenthusiastic – 3 pts
Guides cavalry – Regular, Elite – 7 pts
Sikh Cavalry – Irregular, Veteran – 5 pts
Hodson’s Horse – Regular, Lancers & Guards – 8 pts
European & officers Volunteers Horse - Tribal, Veteran - 4 pts

Artillery

Well drilled – 6 pts

September 1857 – June 1858

Infantry

British Foot (Centre companies) – Regular, Fierce. – 7 pts
British Foot (Flank companies - Grenadiers) – Regular, Fierce, Elite – 8 pts
British Foot (Flank companies – Lights) – Regular, Fierce, Sharpshooters – 9 pts
Loyal BNI (Centre companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete Muskets) – 5 pts
Loyal BNI (Flank companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (obsolete rifles) – 5 pts. Maximum 1 per each 24 pts.
Ghurkas – Regular, Poorly Armed (Obsolete Muskets) – 5 pts
Sikhs – Irregular, Poorly armed (Obsolete muskets), Veteran – 4 pts
Guides infantry – Regular, Poorly Armed (Obsolete muskets) Elite – 6 pts
HEIC European infantry (Flank company) – Regular, Sharpshooters – 8 pts. Maximum 1 per each 24 pts.
HEIC European infantry (Centre companies) – Regular – 6 pts.

Horse

British – Regular, Elite, Lancers and Guard regiments – 9 pts
Loyal BNC – Irregular – 4 pts
Guides cavalry – Regular, Elite – 7 pts
Sikh Cavalry – Irregular, Veteran – 5 pts
Hodson’s Horse – Regular, Lancers & Guards – 8 pts

Artillery

Well drilled – 6 pts

Notes: I decided to go for Tribal those units formed by European civilians and former officers from Sepoy units that had rebelled, to represent the informal nature of those outfits.

Offline DeltaBlue

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  • wait who planted the claymore?!?
Re: Indian Mutiny Sepoys: Regular or Irregular in TMWWBK?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2018, 11:24:23 AM »
Well, here there is my first draft on an Army list for the Mutiny, using The Men Who Would be Kings. Comments are welcomed!

May-September 1857

Infantry

British Foot (Centre companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete Muskets), Fierce. – 6 pts
British Foot (Flank companies - Grenadiers) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete muskets) Fierce, Elite – 7 pts
British Foot (Flank companies – Lights) – Regular, Fierce, Sharpshooters – 9 pts
Loyal BNI (Centre companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete Muskets), Unenthusiastic – 4 pts
Loyal BNI (Flank companies) – Regular, Unenthusiastic, Poorly armed (obsolete rifles) – 4 pts. Maximum 1 per each 24 pts.
Ghurkas – Regular, Poorly Armed (Obsolete Muskets) – 5 pts
Sikhs – Irregular, Poorly armed (Obsolete muskets), Veteran – 4 pts
Guides infantry – Regular, Poorly Armed (Obsolete muskets) Elite – 6 pts
HEIC European infantry (1st Madras; Flank company) – Regular, Sharpshooters – 8 pts. Maximum 1 per each 24 pts.
HEIC European infantry (1st Madras; Centre companies) – Regular – 6 pts.
HEIC European infantry (Other regiments; Flank companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete rifles), Sharpshooters – 6 pts. Maximum 1 per each 24 pts.
HEIC European infantry (Other regiments; Centre companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete muskets) – 5 pts.
European Volunteers – Tribal, Veteran, fierce – 5 pts

Horse

British – Regular, Elite, Lancers and Guard regiments – 9 pts
Loyal BNC – Irregular, Unenthusiastic – 3 pts
Guides cavalry – Regular, Elite – 7 pts
Sikh Cavalry – Irregular, Veteran – 5 pts
Hodson’s Horse – Regular, Lancers & Guards – 8 pts
European & officers Volunteers Horse - Tribal, Veteran - 4 pts

Artillery

Well drilled – 6 pts

September 1857 – June 1858

Infantry

British Foot (Centre companies) – Regular, Fierce. – 7 pts
British Foot (Flank companies - Grenadiers) – Regular, Fierce, Elite – 8 pts
British Foot (Flank companies – Lights) – Regular, Fierce, Sharpshooters – 9 pts
Loyal BNI (Centre companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (Obsolete Muskets) – 5 pts
Loyal BNI (Flank companies) – Regular, Poorly armed (obsolete rifles) – 5 pts. Maximum 1 per each 24 pts.
Ghurkas – Regular, Poorly Armed (Obsolete Muskets) – 5 pts
Sikhs – Irregular, Poorly armed (Obsolete muskets), Veteran – 4 pts
Guides infantry – Regular, Poorly Armed (Obsolete muskets) Elite – 6 pts
HEIC European infantry (Flank company) – Regular, Sharpshooters – 8 pts. Maximum 1 per each 24 pts.
HEIC European infantry (Centre companies) – Regular – 6 pts.

Horse

British – Regular, Elite, Lancers and Guard regiments – 9 pts
Loyal BNC – Irregular – 4 pts
Guides cavalry – Regular, Elite – 7 pts
Sikh Cavalry – Irregular, Veteran – 5 pts
Hodson’s Horse – Regular, Lancers & Guards – 8 pts

Artillery

Well drilled – 6 pts

Notes: I decided to go for Tribal those units formed by European civilians and former officers from Sepoy units that had rebelled, to represent the informal nature of those outfits.


looks good to me,

only thing I would give the options to upgrade Sikhs and Ghurkas from Obsolete Muskets to represent those baker and Brunswick rifles