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Author Topic: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th  (Read 13078 times)

Offline beefcake

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #240 on: May 18, 2018, 09:27:41 AM »
Even if it succeeds. I could never have afforded it and and nor would I have wanted to. I have enough miniatures to paint without needed that much more.


I do back the Bones PVC stuff but that has more variety and is a lot cheaper(and is 99% sure to deliver, not on time but deliver) and I give the most of them to my kids to practice on.


Offline DivisMal

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #241 on: May 18, 2018, 10:23:36 AM »
That's the crazy thing about it...if it will succeed and is of decent quality, the market will be flooded with ultra-cheap Rackham models. The last time this happened was after Rackham went bankrupt and there followed a cascade because shops could not sell the stuff to normal prizes anymore and everyone wanted to get rid of it.

Now SD have maneuvered themselves into a position where it will be very difficult to commence:
1. the KS will not deliver or deliver poor quality. --> The guys who pledged wont support them anymore, we old guys are happy to not have trusted them and admire our Confrontation collections.

2. the KS delivers and is of good quality. ---> No one, I repeat no one, will ever need all minis in the pack especially for confrontation. Single factions will be sold at ebay and will saturate the market for confrontation for years.

The good thing actually is that the KS did not rocket. Imagine, they would have sold like 2000 EBs and another couple of thousand normal pledges. There would be minis for generations to paint be sold for almost nothing at ebay...

Offline Daeothar

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #242 on: May 18, 2018, 11:35:17 AM »
But what will the influx of cheap, low quality Confrontation minis on the market do to the prices of the existing metal miniatures I wonder...

'He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who sticks out in darkness is...fluorescent'

Painting Goal for 2018: 100 miniatures - Tally per 08-09-2018: 67

Offline DivisMal

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #243 on: May 18, 2018, 12:25:38 PM »
But what will the influx of cheap, low quality Confrontation minis on the market do to the prices of the existing metal miniatures I wonder...

good question. If the quality is as poor as we all imagine it to be (if they appear at all, that is), this might even raise the value considerably as people will realise that with the destruction/giving away of many of the masters these precious models will never be reproduced again.

Maybe a scene analogue to Oldhammer will develope?

Offline Daeothar

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #244 on: May 18, 2018, 12:27:08 PM »
That's what I was thinking.

I will beat the curve and call it the Oldfrontation movement from now...  :D

Offline DivisMal

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #245 on: May 18, 2018, 01:08:55 PM »
That's what I was thinking.

I will beat the curve and call it the Oldfrontation movement from now...  :D

Oldfronation! That was the name I was looking for! And to show another parallel: The Oldfrontation rules were as clumsy and poorly laid out as Warhammer 3rd. - maybe even worse! So they are ideal for senile old men dreaming about their youth and telling the youngbloods how it was all better back in those days... lol lol lol

Offline Daeothar

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #246 on: May 18, 2018, 02:23:11 PM »
Perfect.  lol

I'll go and dust off my old books and revel in the awkwardly translated rules and fondly remember how I never could make heads or tails out of them, even back then! ;D

Oldfrontation...

Offline gibby64

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #247 on: May 18, 2018, 03:36:41 PM »
I understand bashing the horrible kickstarter, but there is no need in bashing a game that many, myself included, enjoy. This is not a forum for hating games... there are many games on here that I deem, silly... but I keep that to myself. Let's be respectful.

Offline Daeothar

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #248 on: May 18, 2018, 03:48:57 PM »
Apologies if you took offense; it was certainly not meant in that way.  :-X

In fact, I can say that it's pretty much as DivisMal stated; WHFB 3rd ed has a certain reputation and is loved by many today , mostly  because of nostalgia.

And I think the original Confrontation falls in the same category. Was it a perfect system? Not by a long shot. But it was enjoyable, and dang were the artwork and miniatures awesome!

So there will be a lot of nostalgic players dusting off their old books because of this Kickstarter, as it has awakened forgotten sentiments.

Oldfrontation is therefore uttered fondly and not mockingly; I never really grasped the rules (mostly because of appalling translation), but I do still have a soft spot for the game and its fluff, art and miniatures...

Offline Condottiere

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #249 on: May 18, 2018, 03:59:38 PM »
I understand bashing the horrible kickstarter, but there is no need in bashing a game that many, myself included, enjoy. This is not a forum for hating games... there are many games on here that I deem, silly... but I keep that to myself. Let's be respectful.
No one's stopping you from throwing away your money on this KS, but no one gives you the right to stifle criticism concerning the flaws of a gaming system.   
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 04:16:19 PM by Condottiere »

Offline Condottiere

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #250 on: May 18, 2018, 04:15:46 PM »
Oldfronation! That was the name I was looking for! And to show another parallel: The Oldfrontation rules were as clumsy and poorly laid out as Warhammer 3rd. - maybe even worse! So they are ideal for senile old men dreaming about their youth and telling the youngbloods how it was all better back in those days... lol lol lol
I'd say worse...

The more I study WFB 3rd the greater my appreciation increases for it, despite its clunkiness and flaws, such as the lack of an index and head scratching unit lists in Warhammer Armies, compared to subsequent attempts at streamlining/simplification of the core and advanced rules in later editions.

Confrontation is an example of parochialism, especially with a translation that read like a novel in parts, resulting in terms for game mechanics being unnecessarily complicated when trying to move more than a dozen figures, with special rules. It didn't help that Rackham kept pushing their clunkier mass combat game, despite a lack of desire from customers.   

Offline Condottiere

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #251 on: May 18, 2018, 04:17:56 PM »
Oldfronation! That was the name I was looking for! And to show another parallel: The Oldfrontation rules were as clumsy and poorly laid out as Warhammer 3rd. - maybe even worse! So they are ideal for senile old men dreaming about their youth and telling the youngbloods how it was all better back in those days... lol lol lol

I'd say worse...

The more I study WFB 3rd the greater my appreciation increases for it, despite its clunkiness and flaws, such as the lack of an index and head scratching unit lists in Warhammer Armies, compared to subsequent attempts at streamlining/simplification of the core and advanced rules in later editions.

Confrontation is an example of parochialism, especially with a translation that read like a novel in parts, resulting in terms for game mechanics being unnecessarily complicated when trying to move more than a dozen figures with special rules. It didn't help that Rackham kept pushing their clunkier mass combat game, despite a lack of desire from customers. Not saying its awful, but needed to be streamlined... 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 04:21:44 PM by Condottiere »

Offline mcfonz

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #252 on: May 18, 2018, 04:20:12 PM »
I understand bashing the horrible kickstarter, but there is no need in bashing a game that many, myself included, enjoy. This is not a forum for hating games... there are many games on here that I deem, silly... but I keep that to myself. Let's be respectful.

I also think it is worth quantifying which version of the Confrontation rules you are talking about.

The last version Rackham put out was not a success, nor remembered particularly fondly by many. It was the version that pushed the pre painted PVC miniatures and was no longer a single individual miniature skirmish game and more of a small unit army game.

That is more or less what became the final nail in the head for Rackahm.

Offline Condottiere

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #253 on: May 18, 2018, 04:28:32 PM »
I also think it is worth quantifying which version of the Confrontation rules you are talking about.

The last version Rackham put out was not a success, nor remembered particularly fondly by many. It was the version that pushed the pre painted PVC miniatures and was no longer a single individual miniature skirmish game and more of a small unit army game.

That is more or less what became the final nail in the head for Rackahm.
The rules weren't that bad and IIRC, Rackham always wanted players, with increasing collections, to move on to Rag'Narok, especially from a sales perspective. There's an unreleased Rag'Narok 2.0 and I think I still have the PDF, but Age of Rag'Narok was chosen and might've succeeded, like Age of Sigmar, had Rackham not gone the PPP route.   

Offline gibby64

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Re: KS for Confrontation 'Resurrection' April 17th
« Reply #254 on: May 18, 2018, 04:53:46 PM »
I also think it is worth quantifying which version of the Confrontation rules you are talking about.

The last version Rackham put out was not a success, nor remembered particularly fondly by many. It was the version that pushed the pre painted PVC miniatures and was no longer a single individual miniature skirmish game and more of a small unit army game.

That is more or less what became the final nail in the head for Rackahm.

I play version 3.5... It is the version that is the most developed and has the kinks ironed out... Version 4 know as Age of Rag'Narok is an entirely different game almost. I've played a few sessions of that, but it's not very deep. It's easy to teach to a newbie though. 3.5 is the version most play. Great skirmish game... I do not recommend trying to adapt it to a large army game... Dragon Rampant is best for that in my opinion.