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Author Topic: Sellswords and Spellslingers. Modifying rules. Argonor - "Sneaking"  (Read 4784 times)

Offline Argonor

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Re: Sellswords and Spellslingers Game. A new chapter.
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2018, 03:18:38 AM »
For larger creatures with thicker skin and larger muscle bulk it must be hard for an arrow to reach a major organ or vessel; more so than with a melee weapon.  I am trying some mechanics to alter this, but haven't yet found one I like.

Have you considered a variant of the Black Knight's (or is it the Chaos Knight's? - I am at work without the rules at hand) special rule (rolling a dice to see if the monster takes damage or not)?

I also prefer magic to be a little more restrained.  The activation rules sate " Any result of 8+ entitles that PC to perform 1 action. One action can be anything: attack, aim, cast a spell, read a scroll, drink a potion, pick up an object, or move".
This means my magic user can cast three fireballs if successful with activations. As horde creatures are only 1 hit wonders, fireballs will take out great numbers at a time.  It just seems too much.

While I like the game and don't want to interfere with it's simplicity too much, I am using this as a solo game and can therefore tinker as I wish without being troubled by what others think.  In a character's round, for each spell cast after the first there is a cumulative -1 on the to cast rolls.

In SoBaH, AFAIR (at least it is so in SoDaS), a model may not make more than one attack action per activation, maybe it would be something to try out in S&S?

Very nice to read your reflections on the rules (and the ongoing adventures of Aelkwaffer and companions), keep it coming!  :)
Ask at the LAF, and answer shall thy be given!


Cultist #84

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

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Re: Sellswords and Spellslingers Game. Some game mechanic thoughts.
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2018, 06:22:36 AM »
Some of these rule changes I have tried already, some I haven't.
I don't think they complicate the game too much and give a better feel, for me.



Archery:
During any turn an archer may fire his bow once without needing to reload between turns.  If he/she choses to fire more than once in the same turn there must be a reload phase or the second and third shots will be made at -2.  If an aimed shot (using two activations for the one shot) is used it must be for the first one of the turn.
e.g. Bob the archer is luck enough to get three activations.  He faces three goblins.  He may shoot, reload and shoot again for no penalty, or can try to shoot three times, but with a -2 to each of the subsequent shots.  At the start of the next turn he will be reloaded, regardless of what he chooses to do.

This same rule can be extended to throwing weapons. 
Cross bows always need a reloading activation after firing, even if that means having to wait to the next turn to reload.

Magic:
Casting spells should be difficult.  Scrolls are meant to be read.  Other spells, cast from the wizard’s memory, require incantations, or some expenditure of concentration.  Casting a second spell in a turn is done at -1, a third spell at -2 and if one were lucky enough to roll 20’s for activations will keep casting at a cumulative -1 for each subsequent spell.

To make a critical failure more interesting, on any natural 1 while casting a spell roll a D6.
1   No effect
2   Lose the failed spell for the rest of the game, no more casting for this turn
3-5   Loss of magic power for the rest of the game
6   Take 1 damage and unable to cast spells for the rest of the game


Damage from Spells and Combat:
There is very little chance to kill anything large with one hit.  Likewise, there is little risk to the player characters from weaker creatures in one to two rounds of combat.  Any combat should have the risk of death.  A natural 20 in combat will always give +1 damage, but:
for a weapon or spell that does 1 damage roll a D6
   1-5   Normal damage of 1
   6   Inflicts 2 damage

For a weapon that does 2 damage also roll a D6
1   Inflicts only 1 damage
2-6   Inflicts 2 damage

In the same way, healing may also have a chance of being more effective:
   1-5   Heal usual 1 point
   6   Heal 2 points


Archery and Size:
Archers can hit large creatures easier as they present a larger target, however, an arrow against something this large is less likely to cause damage.   For each point of damage inflicted the creature can roll a save using a D6.  A point of damage is saved on a 6 for a large creature and 5-6 for a huge creature.
So if a strong bow is lucky enough to hit on a 20 and does its full 2 damage with +1 bonus (for the 20) the target creature will throw three dice.  This will make damage reduced in most cases, but still allow for that lucky shot in that part of the dragon that is missing a scale etc.


Heroes and Henchmen:
Some games just need more characters than the traditional rules will allow without diluting the points available.  In an age of mighty heroes there are those who also joined in the adventure but were never mighty and were soon forgotten.  These are the fantasy equivalents of the guy in red on the away team in Star Trek. 
To allow for henchmen there are a few changes in the rules. One is in points for making characters and the other is in the way figures are activated.

Now there is a base cost for each character.
The total pool of points for each party is now 80 (up from 60).  But to buy a hero you must pay 10 points and a henchman is five.
Henchmen have only two hit points while heroes retain three.
Henchmen can have a maximum of 25 points spent on them (including the 5 base cost).
A hero can have a maximum of 50 points (including the 10 base cost).

Group Moves:
Figures which are in base to base contact at the start of the players turn and are not in combat or trying to move rapidly in terrain may activate as a group.  They will do this at one higher than the worst (highest) activation number within the group.  A group may only contain one hero.  If there is an event such as a trap or stepping on a scorpion the person affected is decided at random.
The Leadership trait can be used for a group activation.  The Hero trait is an individual skill and cannot be used.


Basic Morale Rule and Limiting Monster Numbers:
It seems very hard to escape once a few characters are injured with creatures continually coming at the group.
Once scenario events have occurred, keep those cards in the pack. Once either one or two further cards are drawn, the pool of reinforcements, wandering monsters etc has been exhausted and no more will appear.  This helps the game to come to a definite end.

Morale is used in SoBH and can easily be adapted for Sellswords.
Roll for morale when:
Any creature with more than 1 hp will take a morale test vs its DL or a henchman will roll vs a DL of 8 (a hero doesn’t roll).   This does not override the Legacy Creature rule.
When a horde is reduced to under 50% each figure in that horde will roll for morale (it is important to keep casualties on the table to easily see when a horde falls to under 50%).
When a hero or major creature is killed friendly characters/creatures within 8” and LOS will need to roll.

Failed morale leads to the figure to retreat a full move away from its enemy.
A natural 1 will cause the figure to flee off the board.
Once the mission is successful enemy morale plummets.  All morale failures lead to the affected figure to flee off the table.


Shields add such an advantage I think there may need to be a rule to make 2 handed weapons more attractive.  Either that or shields need to be downgraded a little.

I am not completely into the whole masses of weak enemy swarming all over the table. I prefer stronger enemies that activate more, with less chance of reinforcements.  To change the dynamics a little I often add an extra Monster Frenzy and Monster Activates card.
As I am mainly going to play a Silmarillion game, orcs are stronger (DL 10) with a corresponding increase for orc brutes and orc leaders. 
I allow Brutes and Leaders to activate as part of a horde, but they fight separately.

I am also working on modifying traits for a more Middle Earth feeling.  I want to try and develop traits to allow a more"sneaking around" type game, rather than just bashing monsters.
Campaign activities will need work - I can't see Beren or Beleg going carousing, seeing women of dubious repute or gambling!
I also want to bring in some kind of fate system, that accumulates fate points over time until a character, well, meats his/her fate - either overcomes a great foe or dies heroically.  Sometimes an event will draw a character into the fate of the Silmarils and will either have to act on the Oath of Feanor or may run foul of the sons of Feanor.




   

   



Offline Sunjester

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Re: Sellswords and Spellslingers. Modifying rules and the Silmarillion.
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2018, 07:53:04 AM »
These ideas are interesting. To be honest I have yet to play the rules but I'm also intending to use them for Middle Earth based games. At the moment I thinking of setting them in the North during the middle of the Third Age, around the break-up Arnor.

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

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Re: Sellswords and Spellslingers. Modifying rules and the Silmarillion.
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2018, 08:49:35 AM »
Sunjester, the rules do play well, and really don't need tinkering, but the above changes are more just to fit with what I want from a game.
The idea of fate as a campaign factor I think is important as all the major characters in the Silmarillion are driven by or meet some doom/fate. 

I think your setting of Third Age successor states of Arnor is  a good period, as would be the Second Age.  Fate might not be important, but the possibility of succumbing to the darkness could be.  I have not played the One Ring RPG, but from what I have read about it the risk/influence of the Shadow is an important game mechanic.

If you game the last days of Cardolan you will be able to have Barrow Wights and all sorts of creatures out of the Ettenmoors.  You could certainly have a lot of fun with this.

Offline Argonor

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Re: Sellswords and Spellslingers. Modifying rules and the Silmarillion.
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2018, 09:51:52 PM »
Interesting thoughts/points.

I shall have to get some games played to fully understand the impact such changes will have on gameplay, but a lot of it sounds promising.

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

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Re: Sellswords and Spellslingers. Modifying rules and the Silmarillion.
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2018, 02:43:44 AM »
Argonor, I mentioned in the past a thought about rules for "sneaking".
What do you think of these (original rule in normal type, my first thoughts in italics, newer idea in bold):

Stealth (8 XP): If the PC is in contact with cover, only monsters within 4” may shoot him. If there is another available target and that target does not have Stealth, the foe will shoot that target and not the PC with Stealth. If all targets have Stealth, the foe will charge instead.


Change to a levelled trait.  If Green Elf the cost is 6XP.
If out of LOS of enemies may HIDE on DL 12 (1 action) modified by stealth score and conditions below.
If remains in cover may MOVE DL 12 (needs to be rolled for each move action).
Enemy will not target a hidden character or move directly towards them.  They may move indirectly towards a hidden character –  a hoard or individual enemy moves towards another seen PC and brings them to within 2”, when another DL 12 needs to be rolled.
Hiding ends when the PC is in open LOS.
A character may attack from hiding with a +2 to attack roll.  This may be combined with the “Assassin” trait.

Modifiers:
   Moving > ˝ speed -1
   Each grade of armour -1 to -3
   Shield -1
Enemy exists in wraith world -2
   Partial/light cover +0
   Moderate cover +1
   Heavy Cover +2
   Night +2



All this may just be too complicated. Another way is to have stealth as a possibly unlevelled skill.  If goes into cover out of LOS and stays/moves within cover the character is hidden.  He/she cannot be targeted by missiles and enemies will not move directly towards him (but may move indirectly towards him if they are in the process of moving towards a legitimate target). 
If a failed activation results in an ambush, it is assumed the stealth character has surprised a sentry/guard and will get +2 surprise (rather than the usual enemy getting the +2 surprise).  If the enemy is slain, the alarm is not given. Failure to slay the enemy and the presence of the character is made apparent.
May need to give thought to creatures who are near and may perceive the hidden character if they are within 4”.  In this case, possibly roll vs the creatures DL, modified by how perceptive they are (eg trolls not very perceptive so -2 to their DL, wargs have great sense of smell so +2, skeletons are not perceptive at all and will never see the character).  In this case, possibly stealth should be levelled, with the extra levels making it less likely for an enemy to perceive the character


Offline Argonor

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Re: Sellswords and Spellslingers. Modifying rules. Argonor - "Sneaking"
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2018, 09:32:22 PM »
I think you will have to put some minis on the table to test both and tinker with them on the go - usability depends greatly on how much it complicates things, as SS&SS should be played almost without referring to the rulebook. As it is, both may work.

I think sneaking should be possible in contact with physical features (I think of it a bit like the Rogue ability 'Hide in Shadows' from D&D), not necessarily behind cover, but your take on it may differ.

I am still a bit hooked on the idea of having a specific leveled 'Sneak' trait, but the exact effect I have not had time to think through. Well, I would like something to make a 'Rogue' type character worthwhile making, anyway.