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Author Topic: Twelve Feet of the Tartar Wall and Legation quarter, too (Page 9)  (Read 4912 times)

Offline War In 15MM

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Re: I've "looted" China (Page 3)
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2018, 09:23:08 PM »
Smokeyrone, thank you.

FifteensAway, maps of the legation area in Peking show that near the French and Japanese legations there is/was a hotel by the name of Hotel de Pekin.  It is not a structure included in the Blue Moon terrain, but if I can fit it in, I intend to include it in my layout.  Before Blue Moon came out with their collection I had been collecting buildings to serve as legation buildings for some time.  One of those buildings was the Plasticville HO scale Southern Mansion.  Another was/is a wonderful structure once sold by Disney and modeled after the Haunted House at Disneyland.  While it is not a true copy of the Hotel de Pekin, it is a large, grand structure of three stories.  I was fortunate to find one of these at the swap meet several years ago.  Iíve added Milliput bushes around the base to hide its original function which I think may have been a music box or something like that.   It is a large structureÖ three plus stories with the doors and windows that are compatible in size with those of the Blue Moon legation structures.  Iíve attached a picture of the actual Hotel de Pekin and the Disney Haunted House.
pekin-grand-hotel by Richard Garretson, on FlickrIMG_1746 by Richard Garretson, on Flickr

Offline FifteensAway

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Re: I've "looted" China (Page 3)
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2018, 01:55:29 AM »
I tried to post a photo and a link to what may be the hotel in 1900, might be a different hotel close by.  Neither worked.  I googled Hotel de Pekin in 1900 and it was one of the photos that came up.

I think the one in your image might be post 1900.  Have you found evidence of the hotel in that configuration during the siege?  Not that it matters if you want to include it, it is a model for personal pleasure, not a strictly historical setup.

If you can document it as standing during the siege, I have a building I can use as a stand-in if I can fit it in.  Sadly, no longer available.  It is from MBA but they've abandoned their 15 mm range.  Same building will be used as the Musketeers headquarters for Three Musketeer games.  Someday.


edit: Well, having just consulted Preston's book, it does seem the Hotel de Pekin survived the siege - but I think in an earlier configuration.  Oh, and the photo I found must be the same hotel because a little further research suggested it was the only hotel in the legation quarter, referred to as Hotel des Wagon Lits in the photo and that is what I googled.  It was only a two story affair and quite ornate, looks to have been somewhat "U" shaped.  I'd say your model does a better job of representing what may be an earlier configuration than the one in the photo you found.

edit de edit:  Well, maybe MBA might still have some!  I just checked there site.  It is the Town Hall and the nicest part about the model is it does NOT come in a damaged mode - but roof and tower lift off.  If I was flush, I'd buy a couple more but spent too much already with my last Old Glory order.  It is rather imposing in its own way.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 02:16:53 AM by FifteensAway »

Offline War In 15MM

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Re: I've "looted" China (Page 3)
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2018, 02:40:25 AM »
FifteensAway, I googled Hotel de Pekin 1900 and the picture I posted is what I got.  Because I really wanted to include my Disney Haunted House my big concern was not that the Disney building would turn out to be a match... I was sure it would.  What I was hoping to find was that the Hotel de Pekin would provide to be a substantial building (not some version of a B & B) and that it had a European rather than Chinese look.  I particularly like the Disney building for this purpose because the doors and windows are of the same size as those of the Blue Moon buildings.  Also if the first two floors of the Disney building are compared with the two story structure that is the main building in the Japanese legation, they are the same height.  Overall the Disney building is larger because it has three-plus floors and is on a rise, but structurally it works in terms of scale.  The Plasticville HO Southern Mansion is larger in terms of windows and doors. 
As far as I can tell from my selected reading of the Preston book, the Hotel de Pekin was not of dramatic significance to the siege other than as a staging point for a relief effort.
I just checked the Miniature Building Authority 15mm town hall... beautiful building.  How does it scale with the Blue Moon legation buildings in terms of door height, window size and and building height (to roof peak not tower) and depth and frontal width (in inches)?
Keep me/all of us posted on what you find. 
Here's an unrelated aside.  This morning my wife and I were at Disneyland and saw famed photographer Annie Leibovitz conferring with what looked like a project team.  Fun stuff.  Thanks, Richard
I just found the Miniature Building Authority 15mm town hall measurements which at 9" x 4" x 10" is larger than I need.  My three story version is about 5" tall (ground floor to roof) and just over 7" across the face of the building while the Japanese legation building at two stories is 4" tall and 8" across the face of the building.  I should note that MBA is having a sale on 15mm buildings so the town hall is now $62.50 as opposed to a normal price of more than $120.  It is a beautiful building, but my Disney building was purchased at the swap-meet price of $7... a lucky find I think.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 05:02:31 AM by War In 15MM »

Offline FifteensAway

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly "I've "looted" China")
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2018, 06:56:46 AM »
After consulting books, maps, and photographs, I've come to the following conclusions regarding building the Tartar Wall for my Siege Of Peking game:  If I make it 6" tall I will need to make it no less than 4" wide and 5" might be more appropriate to preserve accurately balanced height and width, but 4" will work better for the following detail.  The wall was narrower at the top than at the bottom so straight sides are not in order which give the project a slightly greater challenge but workable, a half inch cant on either side means a 4" top width can have a 5" ground level width and I think that is big enough.  There were regular bastions on the wall opposite the legation side wall and they were of substantial dimensions - so big I probably can not build one full size but might be able to suggest one somehow.  Also, the small walls on each side at the top of the wall have crenellations facing out from the side away from the legations but appear to be solid on the legation side of the wall.  These small walls, if kept to 1/4" thickness on each side means, with a 4" total width, I will have a 3 1/2" lane on the top of the wall.  That should allow for some 'fun' action up top.  There were a number of small, roofed buildings on top of the wall and it seems appropriate to add at least one, maybe three, to my 12' length of wall I'm planning (these were not mere guard shacks, they were large enough to be modest dwellings).  I will model the water gate at a minimum and hopefully at least one of the main gates, probably the one close to the German legation.  The one beyond the British legation may be too far down the wall to include but if included must be in a damaged state.  At least one photo shows Russian artillery and crew on the wall (post relief) and they look small on the wall.  That damn thing is MASSIVE!  And getting a wall tower to look right will test my skills, for sure.  Maybe Oshiro will take pity on me and create proper 15 mm roofs for such a project!!!!  8)

Not regarding the wall, but the canal should not be straight nor should it have walls on either side of it.  If they existed at the time of the siege, the photographic evidence shows they were gone by the end of the siege.  At least in the vicinity of the British legation.  My challenge is how to represent the angular bend in the canal with only having half of the canal (if that) on each side of the central access 'pit' inside the U-shaped 12' x 9' table (4' x 6' pit) and part of it 'centralized'.  I think it can be represented but it will be a bit of a challenge.

Now back to the Tartar Wall.  For cladding, I may already have enough of some brick paper to do most, maybe all, of the wall.  Since it is - or was - a common item for building California missions for 4th grade social studies (required in California curriculums), might be easy to find more.  And if not, I can punt and use the brick paper to suggest wall texturing.  Looks like the top of the wall can be either pavement or dirt because photos show both, perhaps results of the siege.

This, of course, is for my wall.  War in 15 MM's wall is much further along than mine and he's opted for vertical as opposed to canted walls, no doubt a factor of the Duple Block base he is using.  It will be curious to see what we each come up with in the end.  I'm not racing though, unlike Richard, I'm not retired.  My partner on the project is retired but he has other projects of his own but we might catch up to Richard.  Or not.  That man churns stuff out at an amazing rate.

Okay, enough eyes have glazed over for now.  Moving on.

Offline War In 15MM

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly I've "looted" China")
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2018, 04:27:00 PM »
FifteensAway, I'll be looking forward to seeing your wall especially your approach to the wall bastion.  I've given some thought to adding one to one of my wall sections or perhaps making one that is removable (easier storage).  For the roof I would probably go with JTT or Evergreen Spanish tile... I do like plastic for building structures.  Today my efforts are far less interesting.  I'll be cutting the connecting buttons (for lack of a better word) off the top surface of my Duplo wall sections.  Should be done with that tomorrow.  Once that's done it gets really interesting.  I'll be sanding the surface smooth.  I might mention that some time ago I saw the wall construction efforts of what I believe was a LAF member... unfortunately can't remember the name.  He was built the canted wall and ramp out of masonite and covered it with sheets of paper stone.  Looked really good. 

Offline War In 15MM

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly I've "looted" China")
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2018, 01:41:46 AM »
For me one of the few disappointments about the Blue Moon legations is that the legations were designed with the firing steps attached to the legation walls.  I would have much preferred that the firing steps be separate from the walls so that with regard to most of the legations (the British being the exception), one could have the legations in both the siege and pre-siege conditions.  That said the discussion we are having about constructing the Tartar Wall brought me to the realization that with regard to the US, Japanese, Russian and French legations I can have them both ways simply by scratch building the walls for those legations... the gates are fine and the main buildings are fine or need modest modification.  The British is a different case because the main building and the blockhouse-style building are bunkered up.  What I may do in that case is use the Austrian legation building as a stand-in for the main British legation building... no shame, and scratch build or modify the blockhouse-style building.  I'll be scratch building the pre-siege walls and the blockhouse-style building with Evergreen and JTT plastic.

Offline FifteensAway

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly I've "looted" China")
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2018, 02:08:46 AM »
Richard, I've ordered a couple of the legation damaged wall sections - hope to have by end of next week - and am curious to see how workable they are with the various legations.  I'll let you know how it works out.

Offline War In 15MM

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly I've "looted" China")
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2018, 04:02:40 AM »
Looks to me like the Blue Moon damaged legation wall should work with the US, Japanese and British legations.

Offline Smokeyrone

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly I've "looted" China")
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2018, 05:40:01 PM »
Looking great 15
Living in seclusion since the Denny Pratt tragedy

Offline War In 15MM

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly I've "looted" China")
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2018, 08:19:29 PM »
FifteensAway, as I indicated above Iíve decided to have the legations in pre-siege and siege form.  Since the legation walls come with firing steps and the British legations is bunkered up, there is not problem achieving the siege look.  The Japanese, US and Russian legation buildings are not bunkered up so not much is required to use them as both pre-siege and siege structures.  In looking into this problem the obvious issue is legation walls without firing steps.  Those will take time to build but shouldnít be difficult to achieve.  I will be cheating in terms of the main British legation building and using the Austrian legation building in its place as my pre siege British structure.  I havenít figured out how Iím going to do the blockhouse-style British building but the real problem structure appeared to be the gatehouse to the British legation.  It comes with sandbagged windows.  On Friday I decided to see if I could make a pre siege version using Legos as the structural core and Evergreen Plastic as the detail outer skin of the building.  The result is far from perfect but it will serve. The crest over the entrance to the legation gate is made from Milliput.
IMG_1748 by Richard Garretson, on FlickrIMG_1751 by Richard Garretson, on Flickr

Offline DintheDin

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly I've "looted" China")
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2018, 08:26:39 PM »
Well sculpted, well done!
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates. Ė Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi

Offline FifteensAway

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly I've "looted" China")
« Reply #56 on: May 06, 2018, 11:32:10 PM »
Gate is certainly workable but three things struck me - the keystone needs its mates to right and left, there should be a cross bar below the coat of arms (your milliput sculpt), and the top piece seems a bit out of proportion.  However, none of those prevent you from moving forward - though I would encourage at least the additional stones to either side of the keystone at the top of the arch.

Like the two Chinese carrying the pole with the large package.  Don't recall that setup in the Blue Moon civilians - is it or is it from some other source (like your own creativity, perhaps?)?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 02:13:41 PM by FifteensAway »

Offline War In 15MM

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly I've "looted" China")
« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2018, 12:30:23 AM »
The two figures are from the Two Dragons' Samurai.  Two Dragons were the central figures I used when I put together my Samurai collection years ago (maybe 10 years ago), but even then I knew I wanted to do the Boxer Rebellion so a put a couple of these aside.

Offline War In 15MM

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly I've "looted" China")
« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2018, 09:44:09 PM »
Finished the initial texturing of my Tartar Wall sections.  I still have a lot of detail work to do in terms of the rims on the top of the wall, the water gate and the painting, but it is good to have gotten the wall this far along in about a week and a half.
IMG_1752 by Richard Garretson, on Flickr

Offline Smokeyrone

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Re: The Tartar Wall (Page 4) (formerly I've "looted" China")
« Reply #59 on: May 09, 2018, 12:33:08 AM »
The project is going swimmingly