*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 23, 2018, 05:10:22 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1233537
  • Total Topics: 86938
  • Online Today: 152
  • Online Ever: 697
  • (July 31, 2016, 09:46:52 PM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: Italians vs Abysinians AAR  (Read 1355 times)

Offline italwars

  • scientist
  • Posts: 476
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2018, 12:53:27 AM »
Rogerc...you're tue about the Italian Expedition Force made out of less efficient conscripts..even the Besaglieri were 'nt at all a good asset...except the few Alpini very good troops and above all the partially manned by Alpini Montain Artillery which, as few know, were and probably still are the élite of the Italian Army..the whole Italian European forces were composed of something worse than simple conscripts...in practice the General HQ had the absurd idea to send not singles Btgs grouped in Brigades as everybody does..but forming for this occasion special Btgs , even Companies, at the last minute with conscripts taken from every garrison of Italy..from every Region..with soldiers that met their officers for the first time only in Naples Harbour while embarking  on the eve of the campaign...worst than that.. Colonels of every garrisons took the opportunity to get rid and  send to the Naples depot only the worst elements they have indisciplinated, unfit elements  and ruffians...you can imagine the final result..demotivated and unwilling troops despised by their officers..in some occasion even threatening their officers at gunpoint !  even the Bersaglieri Btgs were formed partially in this way...and as we are Italian there is no limit to the inefficiency and to the cowardice of the organisation ..so at the very last moment the very modern clip magazine rifles that had been recently distributed were retired and unfitted/unchecked old weapons were redistributed..even the ammo reserve was'nt standardised..for that reason the only  élite , well lead and well motivated Alpini (all recruited among better educated and better fitted for duty people from the North of Italy) whose officers succeeded in retaining their new weapons to which they were already trained find after landing that their exclusive ammo reserves had only partially followed them.
the poor Askari, on the other hand, were sufficiently trained, well lead and very motivated
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 01:01:03 AM by italwars »

Offline italwars

  • scientist
  • Posts: 476
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2018, 01:10:23 AM »
some of my minis for that period:

Offline Arundel

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 779
  • Galloping Outward Into the Weather!
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2018, 03:15:12 AM »
Those are very nice figures, Italwars! What make are they?

Offline Rogerc

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 556
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2018, 09:46:23 AM »
Very nice Italwars
+
My blog gapagnw.blogspot.co.uk

Offline DintheDin

  • scatterbrained genius
  • Posts: 2295
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2018, 10:24:20 AM »
Very interesting period and very nice pics! Thanks for sharing!
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates. – Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi

Offline Smokeyrone

  • mastermind
  • Posts: 1455
  • Five Rings
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2018, 12:51:19 PM »
Good info.  Thank you.

It seems to me, 15mm offers a lot of figures for this period
Living in seclusion since the Denny Pratt tragedy

Offline Smokeyrone

  • mastermind
  • Posts: 1455
  • Five Rings
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2018, 12:31:27 AM »
Cheers Ragbones. Being tempted by first battle of Gallabat with the Abysinians taking on the Mahdis dervish.

What do you think the Abyssinians were armed with?  The same stuff they had against the Italians?   Sounds like a very cool game.  A siege and Mahdist stand inside a walled fort....

Offline Rogerc

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 556
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2018, 03:32:01 PM »
Yeah I think both sides would have some modern weapons, the Abysinians probably slightly more than the Mahdists and using a mix including those captured from the Italians. The Mahdists seem to have got quite a kicking from the Abysinians.

Offline italwars

  • scientist
  • Posts: 476
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2018, 09:07:19 PM »
Those are very nice figures, Italwars! What make are they?

they are or were my own ITALWARS range of course  ;) :)

Offline italwars

  • scientist
  • Posts: 476
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2018, 09:20:09 PM »
What do you think the Abyssinians were armed with?  The same stuff they had against the Italians?   Sounds like a very cool game.  A siege and Mahdist stand inside a walled fort....

about 2/3 with firearms..some muskets but many BLR ..Chassepots, Martini Henry and above all Remingtons...and the source for those last one was..Italy!!!!... :o  and more than that...in 1870 with the end of the Pontifical Army following the entering of Italian/Piedmontese troops in Rome...the small arms arsenal of the former Pope's soldiers was captured by  Piedmontese...then, on the eve of Adwa..with the disastrous Peace Treaty of Ucciali with which the Italian hoped to bribe Negus Menelik and assure peace..they offered him those almost rusted Remington BLR...those very Pontifical Rifles that were bought by Belgian Catholics and donated to the Pontifical Zouaves to defend the S. Siege..those rifles were used to shot Italians at Adwa...but we have to wait the Italian Conquest of Ethiopia in 1935 to see the amazmnet of Italian officers discovering on Addis Abeba Negus Arsenal 's those Remington with mark of Belgian manufacture and the emblem of the Pope.
In any case , from what i read, the Abyssinian were terrible shooters firing one handed while  holding their shields..something similra to the zulus

Offline Smokeyrone

  • mastermind
  • Posts: 1455
  • Five Rings
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2018, 10:29:39 PM »
about 2/3 with firearms..some muskets but many BLR ..Chassepots, Martini Henry and above all Remingtons...and the source for those last one was..Italy!!!!... :o  and more than that...in 1870 with the end of the Pontifical Army following the entering of Italian/Piedmontese troops in Rome...the small arms arsenal of the former Pope's soldiers was captured by  Piedmontese...then, on the eve of Adwa..with the disastrous Peace Treaty of Ucciali with which the Italian hoped to bribe Negus Menelik and assure peace..they offered him those almost rusted Remington BLR...those very Pontifical Rifles that were bought by Belgian Catholics and donated to the Pontifical Zouaves to defend the S. Siege..those rifles were used to shot Italians at Adwa...but we have to wait the Italian Conquest of Ethiopia in 1935 to see the amazmnet of Italian officers discovering on Addis Abeba Negus Arsenal 's those Remington with mark of Belgian manufacture and the emblem of the Pope.
In any case , from what i read, the Abyssinian were terrible shooters firing one handed while  holding their shields..something similra to the zulus


You the man!   Thank You!  :)

So, there are all sorts of cool battles vs Mahdists, including the Force Publique in a Congo vs Sudan battle.

My Seebattalion and US Marines units are also known to tussle with the fuzzies

Offline italwars

  • scientist
  • Posts: 476
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2018, 01:48:59 PM »
So, there are all sorts of cool battles vs Mahdists, including the Force Publique in a Congo vs Sudan battle.

and more than that...Sudanese Mahdist not fought VS Egyptians,British, Italians, Belgians, other African Sudanese and Congolese tribesman...but even at Fachoda, just prior the encounter between Anglo/Egyptian and  the French, the Ansars tried a landing Vs the French poistion in Bar El Ghazal manned by Tirailleurs Sénégalais and some Shlillouk tribesmen in wait...and were annhitilated by murderous modern clip magazines Lebel rifles just distributed to Tirailleurs... ;)

Offline Plynkes

  • The Royal Bastard
  • Moderator
  • galactic brain
  • *
  • Posts: 8796
  • I killed Mufasa!
    • http://misterplynkes.blogspot.com/
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2018, 02:18:55 PM »
If you are a 28mm sort and have a Foundry Azande army, you can give them a go against the Mahdists, too, as they fought at least one battle (the Mahdists lost, as I recall).

The Mahdists weren't very good neighbours, they seem to have fallen out with everybody they had a border with at one time or another. That's true of most states, I suppose, but they managed to cram it all into about fifteen years. Pretty good going. :)



Something always told me they were reading Tommy wrong...

Offline italwars

  • scientist
  • Posts: 476
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2018, 10:23:32 PM »

The Mahdists weren't very good neighbours, they seem to have fallen out with everybody they had a border with at one time or another. That's true of most states, I suppose, but they managed to cram it all into about fifteen years. Pretty good going. :)

You're true Plynkes...but what amused me is the fact that they were so unpleasant and lacking "good manners" and such intrusive guests that they succeeded even in uniting in temporary alliances some traditional ennemies among both Imperial and Native people..Shilluks with French, Azande and even Muslim Congo's people (arab slavers ) with the Belgians and Italian with Eritrean border troublemaker tribes and even, in a certain way after Adua, Ethiopians with Italian! and not to forget that thanks to Dervishes we put hands also in the abbandoned Egyptian city of Kassala...we even dare to offer to a very embarassed Lord Kitchner   our help to wipe out  the Ansars! lol lol
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 10:30:55 PM by italwars »

Offline Smokeyrone

  • mastermind
  • Posts: 1455
  • Five Rings
Re: Italians vs Abysinians AAR
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2018, 06:37:52 AM »
Seems  the Mahdists always  treed when fighting the British.  (Played over their head, and most battles were tough)

Yet they  lost a lot many  battles to some pretty average forces (forces without  technical advantage). 

Maybe they had higher quality units when fighting the Brits, and the smaller battles against local foes were local, inferior Mahdist forces?


They  never succeeded in any plans to conquer Egypt and elsewhere, either.     Looks like they kinda got lazy after Khartoum, and relied on their rep and past laurels?