Saga for fantasy - which sourcebook would you recommend for fantasy games?

[Hobgoblin]

I've been toying with the idea of picking up Saga for a while, but was waiting for the new edition. I'll be using it for fantasy games and will buy the fantasy supplement when it's eventually released, but will be quite content to use humanoid monsters for the various historical groups in the meantime.

I don't much like magic in fantasy games. Or rather, I don't mind it at the Song of Blades level, where it's a minor tactical ploy, but I really don't care if it's missing. And I'm quite content for a burly hobgoblin with a two-handed axe to count as a huscarl.

But my question is this: which of the three Saga sourcebooks would be best for a fantasy game? I'm naturally tempted to go for Age of Vikings. If I did, though, would I be missing anything that would translate well to a fantasy game? Horse-archers for example (I presume the Crusades and Aetius book have those). And does any of the three sets of battleboards stand out as the best game-wise?

Given the hefty price of the sourcebooks, I'm only likely to buy one, at least before the fantasy one is published.

All recommendations gratefully received!

[Ogrob]

There are a couple of horse archer units in Age of Vikings, both mercenaries and in one or two factions.

Do you have a person/group you are likely to play with? The game should work best if everyone is playing factions from the same book.

I only have Age of Vikings so far, but I see ample possiblity in there to use for fantasy gaming. I'm probably going to field my House Stark forces as Scots in this edition.

[Hobgoblin]

Thanks - that's good to know.

I'll be playing mainly with my kids and also with friends when they're in town. So I'll be supplying both sides and would be drawing them from the same book.

If I go with Age of Vikings, my Scots will probably be orcs (or hobgoblins ...)!

One more question: are multi-based figures useful in Saga (as they very much are in Lion/Dragon Rampant), so long as you have enough individuals to remove casualties? Or do the game mechanics demand entirely individual basing? I have some multi-based heavy cavalry for HotT that features fairly regularly in our Dragon Rampant games, and that could nudge me towards the Crusades book, I suppose.

[Hobgoblin]

And a couple of other questions!

None of the Saga sourcebooks include chariots, do they?

And can one take a Dragon Rampant-style "strength points" approach to a Saga unit? For example, counting a troll as four elite warriors by giving it four "hit points"? Or would that not work?

Thanks in advance!

[Coenus Scaldingus]

As I think you're already considering (given the chariot question), the best book I think mainly depends on what type of forces/troops you want to use. Quite a few Viking Age factions will have no or merely light cavalry, while more melee oriented cav is more common in the Crusades era (almost as if it's based on history!). I can't currenlty provide a full list of all options for all factions, but that seems a practical consideration. At a more detailed level, you may have specific forces in mind, thus perhaps warranting a search for somewhat similar playstyles. Anglo-Saxons for example have always been slightly more of a horde factions (large groups of levy), which may fit well for goblins or the likes. Others are better with elites (Elves?), play defensively (Dwarves?), etc.

There's the possibility of using a chariot in A&A, a mount for the warlord (more status than fighting, but rules nonetheless). If relevant, I think A&A also has the only war machine to date (Roman ballista).

I think multibase figures (which is sort of similar to using a troll - fixed area representing multiple troops) aren't perfect for SAGA, but will work much better in V2.0 than previously. In the past, the units walked fairly freely across the board, taking different formations (just stay within 2" of another bloke in the unit). Now, units have to be tighter, and automatically all fight in combats, making multibasing less of an issue. As such, I think you can get away with it now - whether a base happens to have 2 guys on it, or represents 4 figures in a single troll, just adjust hitpoints and generated attacks accordingly (losing guys or the trolls getting injured). Other than that, if it thematically makes sense, the easiest thing is to have a monster as the warlord: they very much are monsters in combat, are supposed to be on large bases and make a nice centrepiece. One of my first games of SAGA (V1.0) saw my Vikings face an evil armoured giant (Sauron) and his horde of Orcs (warriors) and Uruk-hai (hearthguard) - counted as Anglo Danes at the time. (Naturally, my warlord heroically duelled the monstrous adversary and gained some shiney new jewelry for his troubles. No idea what eventually came of him or his loot made of precious metals...)

[Hobgoblin]

As I think you're already considering (given the chariot question), the best book I think mainly depends on what type of forces/troops you want to use. Quite a few Viking Age factions will have no or merely light cavalry, while more melee oriented cav is more common in the Crusades era (almost as if it's based on history!). I can't currenlty provide a full list of all options for all factions, but that seems a practical consideration. At a more detailed level, you may have specific forces in mind, thus perhaps warranting a search for somewhat similar playstyles. Anglo-Saxons for example have always been slightly more of a horde factions (large groups of levy), which may fit well for goblins or the likes. Others are better with elites (Elves?), play defensively (Dwarves?), etc.

Thanks! That's really helpful.

On the one hand, I've got so many painted orcs and similar creature that I could probably create fairly coherent-looking, diverse sides that were entirely orcish. I once put together on here examples of Citadel orcs that matched all the various infantry roles in Dragon Rampant, so I could easily field one orc side with berserkers, armoured warriors and spear-armed levies and another with axe-wielding "huscarl" types, mail-clad warriors and bow-armed rabble.

On the other, there are various other projects I've got going, like the forest goblins in my thread, which I'm thinking of expanding with some old Ruglud's orcs (I think I have four of them left!) and possibly a chariot and war machine.

There's the possibility of using a chariot in A&A, a mount for the warlord (more status than fighting, but rules nonetheless). If relevant, I think A&A also has the only war machine to date (Roman ballista).

Hmm. That's really good to know. It seems like the A&A book matches my ambitions for painting over the next month or two, but the Age of Vikings one probably matches what I currently have better (i.e. scores of melee-minded troops of differing attitudes and armour). So I suppose it's better to start with what I can field now and perhaps order A&A once I've got the more exotic things ready to go.

I don't have a huge amount of heavy cavalry painted up, so I'll probably leave the Crusades book for now.

I think multibase figures (which is sort of similar to using a troll - fixed area representing multiple troops) aren't perfect for SAGA, but will work much better in V2.0 than previously. In the past, the units walked fairly freely across the board, taking different formations (just stay within 2" of another bloke in the unit). Now, units have to be tighter, and automatically all fight in combats, making multibasing less of an issue. As such, I think you can get away with it now - whether a base happens to have 2 guys on it, or represents 4 figures in a single troll, just adjust hitpoints and generated attacks accordingly (losing guys or the trolls getting injured). Other than that, if it thematically makes sense, the easiest thing is to have a monster as the warlord: they very much are monsters in combat, are supposed to be on large bases and make a nice centrepiece.

Yes, monster as warlord sounds great.

One thing that particurarly appeals about Saga is the option of putting together very small units that wouldn't work with other games. For example, I have a lot (all?) of the Jez Goodwin Uruk-hai and have only painted one of them. But I can see myself painting up four eight of them for Saga, along with the Goodwin Golfag's ogres, which look very similar but are a little bigger, and his RoR hobgoblins, which are a little smaller. And maybe even the Asgard orcs, which match up nicely too, but are much smaller and scruffier, for the most part.

One of my first games of SAGA (V1.0) saw my Vikings face an evil armoured giant (Sauron) and his horde of Orcs (warriors) and Uruk-hai (hearthguard) - counted as Anglo Danes at the time. (Naturally, my warlord heroically duelled the monstrous adversary and gained some shiney new jewelry for his troubles. No idea what eventually came of him or his loot made of precious metals...)

Ha! Yes, that's exactly the sort of game I'm envisaging.

Thanks again - this has been really helpful!

[Barbarus]

How about...

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=81709.0


We've got ten factions. Among them Dwarves, Elves, Barbarians, the usual suspects. Each of them with their own Battleboard.

And everything can be downloaded from our website.

[Hobgoblin]

Thanks, Barbarus. I'll certainly give that a look.

Oddly enough, I ordered Saga yesterday, along with the Viking and Anglo-Saxon dice. (Extravagant, I know, but I want to get cracking with a game rather than fiddle around making my own dice - and I noted that the AS dice cover the Huns too, which I thought might fit well with wolfriders).

I suspect a lot of our battles will end up being orcs v orcs (or other humanoids). I've got so many different tribes, and so much variation within each, that I don't think I'll have any problem assembling forces that fit the various Dark Age line-ups. I've got more than enough wild-eyed screaming orcs to work as berserkers and lots of heavily armoured mail-and-shield types for other hearthguard, as well as mail-clad types with two-handed axes (huscarls?).

As an example, I found that I had more than enough to make distinct units of each type of Dragon Rampant infantry just using my Perry "cave goblins" (from left to right: ravenous hordes, light foot, bellicose foot, offensive heavy foot and elite foot; and scouts, light missiles and heavy missiles). I think Saga should be amenable to the same sort of approach. But I'll certainly look at your stuff with interest once we're up to speed with the original game. Thanks again!