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Author Topic: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?  (Read 774 times)

Offline Doug em4

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AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« on: May 04, 2018, 10:44:05 PM »
I made the mistake many years ago of deciding to do AK47 in 25/8mm, because I like that size. However, you need a really big board to play it so I never do. Iíd like to use these toys again and theyíd be great for skirmish games. So, can anyone suggest suitable rules which would have some of the AK47 flavour?

Doug
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Offline Mad Lord Snapcase

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2018, 07:35:22 AM »
I shall be following this thread with interest. I possibly have a vague idea that I might know what you may be up to, maybe!   ;)


"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books or too much ammunition."

Offline fastolfrus

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2018, 10:08:35 AM »
Or just play on a smaller table and use a single figure instead of a three man base?
The new edition of AK47 rules (2015 or similar?) would probably work that way.

Or the Vietnam set (MoCB 2017?)
Gary, Glynis, and Alasdair (there are three of us, but we are too mean to have more than one login)

Offline Doug em4

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2018, 12:54:05 PM »
I shall be following this thread with interest. I possibly have a vague idea that I might know what you may be up to, maybe!   ;)

A vague idea of what Iím up to is quite a lot further down the line than I have myself, mílud.

Or just play on a smaller table and use a single figure instead of a three man base?
The new edition of AK47 rules (2015 or similar?) would probably work that way.
Or the Vietnam set (MoCB 2017?)

I did use a single figure base when I played but the ranges all looked wrong. Regardless of what the figure scale was supposed to be, in my mind it was a 1/1 scale and so didnít feel right. Iíll have to look at the recent versions - I think mine is from around 2001...!

Doug

Offline Arrigo

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2018, 05:42:56 PM »
Mhmm...

disclaimer: I am big believer that people should craft scenarios rather than just throw points to get the flavor, so I will recommend skirmish rules that, IMHO (okay I am not humble at all! you know me  8)  ) could work in AK-47 setting allowing scenario designer to get the flavor.

Osprey Black ops. Extremely simple, you can cusotmize your guys to a certain extent and the troop quality is heavily factored. Nothing prevent you to give some weird combination of traits to specific units to have European/american mercenaries, crazy militia, and so on. I am using them for weird Special Force setting I am doing.

Force on Force: they have an African supplement, you can customize units and push the situation more toward the AK-47 side of the thing. Again troop quality is critical. You can play with force on force engagement or regular vs mobs style.  IMHO work best with few team per side, but has a clever system for  generating irregular reinforcements. I like it... just to give you an example see the attached files...

For a more historical look you can use TFL platoon rules (Chain of Command or Troops Weapons and Tactics) with the B'maso supplement. Very very African style. 

All set mentioned allow you to use vehicles but, as long you do not get megalomaniac, they do not overpower the game.

 
"Put Grant straight in"

for pretty tanks and troops: http://forwardhq.blogspot.com

Offline mikedemana

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2018, 04:02:14 AM »
If you'd like a man-to-man skirmish scale, with each figure representing one man but maneuvering by squads, then my rules Wars of Insurgency might fit the bill. Generally, each player controls 3-5 squads of anywhere from 3 to a dozen figures. The rules are easy to learn, but I feel give the flavor of modern warfare. Weapons are by type, so Small Arms are small arms -- no worrying about differences between an AK-47 and M-16. Same with LMG, HMG, etc.

Here's one of my recent blog posts with about a dozen pictures from games I ran at Little Wars in Chicago last weekend:
http://leadlegionaries.blogspot.com/2018/04/little-wars-2018-war-torn-village-in.html

Feel free to ask questions about the rules...

Mike Demana
www.firstcommandwargames.com
http://leadlegionaries.blogspot.com/


Offline ulverston

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2018, 08:39:14 AM »
At Close Quarters by Chris Peers would work for you. I have not used the set in a while but they are very good....I have been using Black Ops recently which also sound perfect for your needs.

Offline Doug em4

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2018, 12:08:05 PM »
Iím interested in all the sets suggested but Iíve discovered a BUT. I was certain Iíd based my figures individually, but I just looked at them for the first time in well over 10 years and found I actually based them as multiples - mainly 2 to a base with some 3. Iím not keen on rebasing them all so will any of the rules suggested comfortably deal with multiples whilst still being a 1/1 skirmish game?

Doug
ps - Iíve got CoC and hadnít considered it. My first thought is that itís a bit too ďseriousĒ for what Iím looking for

Offline Mad Lord Snapcase

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2018, 01:28:33 PM »
I was going to suggest Black Ops as ulverston did. However, with your minis not being individually based, Black Ops may not be your best option. The direction a mini is facing in Black Ops is important as seeing and shooting is determined by a 90 degree arc from the mini. Easily determined on a square base but other type bases may need to be marked. With 2 or 3 minis on one base, they will always face the same way, whereas 2 or 3 minis individually based could move together but maintain differing visual arcs, thus being more effective, I think! Does that make any sense?

I will try to add a diagram! (edit: diagram added)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 01:34:35 PM by Mad Lord Snapcase »

Offline Arrigo

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2018, 03:00:06 PM »
If your minis are already based in small groups I would suggest Force on Force, it is the less strict on facing and because the basic unit is the team it gives plenty of room. I use team based 15mm troops with it with no issue. I also used team bases for CoC. So it would not be a problem. Again these rules act in teams or even squads.

I use some skull counters to mark casualties in 15mm, in 28mm they will be even less invasive.

Offline Doug em4

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2018, 05:37:29 PM »
I was going to suggest Black Ops as ulverston did. However, with your minis not being individually based, Black Ops may not be your best option. The direction a mini is facing in Black Ops is important as seeing and shooting is determined by a 90 degree arc from the mini. Easily determined on a square base but other type bases may need to be marked. With 2 or 3 minis on one base, they will always face the same way, whereas 2 or 3 minis individually based could move together but maintain differing visual arcs, thus being more effective, I think! Does that make any sense?

I will try to add a diagram! (edit: diagram added)

It does make sense, even without your fabulous artwork which tells me what 90 degrees is 😁😁😁. I wonder if it would work if a base had 180 degrees coverage but only had half effect for anything outside the middle 45 degrees (or to put it another way, had double effect on targets within the middle 45 degrees). Sorry, no diagram - I havenít got míluds admirable draughtmanship skills and anyway, he gets all that stuff done by Old Scrotum, the familyís wrinkled old retainer.


If your minis are already based in small groups I would suggest Force on Force, it is the less strict on facing and because the basic unit is the team it gives plenty of room. I use team based 15mm troops with it with no issue. I also used team bases for CoC. So it would not be a problem. Again these rules act in teams or even squads.

I use some skull counters to mark casualties in 15mm, in 28mm they will be even less invasive.

Interesting - Iíll definitely look into FoF.

Thanks

Doug

Doug

Offline ulverston

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2018, 10:20:28 PM »
Force on Force is excellent and I love the African supplement but I was put off by the need for so many different dice.... that may be all changed now with a second edition? I know you won't want to hear this but... why not take a few days off work and have everything ready to rebase your men singly?

I have done it and it is a bit like the dentist-once it is over with you realise it was worth it.

Whatever you decide good luck and I look forward to your decision appearing on here, this seems to be a common gamers dilema.

Offline Doug em4

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2018, 12:24:19 PM »
Force on Force is excellent and I love the African supplement but I was put off by the need for so many different dice.... that may be all changed now with a second edition? I know you won't want to hear this but... why not take a few days off work and have everything ready to rebase your men singly?

I have done it and it is a bit like the dentist-once it is over with you realise it was worth it.

Iím looking into Force on Force but I must admit Iím confused. On another thread thereís mention of an Osprey version but on Ospreyís site, it says FoF is no longer available. You mention (above) a second edition. Is this the Ambush Alley edition?

As regards re-basing 🙁🙁🙁....maybe....

Doug

Offline Arrigo

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Re: AK47 style skirmish game - rules recommendation?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2018, 03:58:04 PM »
As far I know, right now there is only one version right now. It was sold as a nice harback from Osprey (and also PDF), but now the selling rights have returned to Ambush Alley.  You can buy it from ambush alley on PDF. They have also the supplements.  Here: http://www.ambushalleygames.net/force-on-force-core-rules-pdf/


on the other hand if you look at amazon and other book e-seller you can find the hardbacks/soffbacks often for good prices!

Arrigo