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Author Topic: 15mm 7YW Saxons?  (Read 1482 times)

Offline smirnoff

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 974
15mm 7YW Saxons?
« on: May 06, 2018, 05:27:57 PM »
Best 15mm 7YW Saxon Grenadiers, Fusiliers, cavalry etc please?
I have Dixon, Minifigs, Naismith, Lancashire and Old Glory in the French army.

Offline DintheDin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6214
Re: 15mm 7YW Saxons?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2018, 09:13:20 AM »
Hi,

For some undefined reasons  :) I am also a Saxon sympathizer, having painted 30YW, GNW, 7YW and 1806 Saxons for my collection.
I didn't find any company producing 7YW Saxons, so I deem that, for making a Saxon army you will have to rely on figures of other nations, mainly Prussian or Austrian.

The other question is in what period of the Seven Years War you would like to make your army? The (unlucky) Saxon Army underwent many changes: You would like to depict Saxons before and during the 1756 Pirna campaign? Saxons in Prussian service? Or Saxons after 1757 fighting alongside the Austrians and the French?

For instance, until 1756 grenadiers had the Prussian style mitre cap, the ones that escaped after 1757 were issued the Austrian style bearskin cap. The cut of the infantry uniform was presumably of German/Austrian style.

One valuable source on uniform information could be Summerfield's

"SAXON ARMY OF THE AUSTRIAN WAR OF SUCCESSION AND THE SEVEN YEARS WAR: UNIFORMS ORGANISATION AND EQUIPMENT"

(unfortunately it has not fallen in my hands yet)

https://kentrotman.co.uk/new/saxon-army-of-the-austrian-war-of-succession-and-the-seven-years-war-uniforms-organisation-and-equipment/

as well the super valuable and reliable Kronoskaf site

http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Saxon_Army

I would prefer Old Glory/Blue Moon figures, as Eureka is too far for me to reach...

I hope I did not burden you with information you might already know, I wish you good luck to your quest!

Cheers, Dinos
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates. – Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi

Offline smirnoff

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 974
Re: 15mm 7YW Saxons?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2018, 06:04:10 PM »
Many thanks Dinos
I thought I was being dim as I could not find specific figures in current 15mm 7YW ranges.
I want to produce a 4 battalion Saxon Brigade to fight with the French. Useful bit of info on the Grenadier bearskins, thank you. any other things I need to look out for for Saxons fighting alongside French?

Offline DintheDin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6214
Re: 15mm 7YW Saxons?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2018, 07:12:27 PM »
You may use Kronoskaf as a source and check the French OOBs at the following battles:
-Lutterberg
http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=1758-10-10_-_Battle_of_Lutterberg
(had at least 3 Saxon brigades)

-Bergen
http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=1759-04-13_-_Battle_of_Bergen
(2 Saxon brigades of 6 battalions each)

-Minden
http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=1759-08-01_-_Battle_of_Minden
(2 Saxon brigades, one of 6 and one of 8 battalions)

Hope I helped!


Offline Baron von Wreckedoften

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 860
Re: 15mm 7YW Saxons?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2018, 08:02:57 PM »
Not sure if this is useful or not, but would Eureka's 18mm Saxon Napoleonic range be acceptable?  I suspect the hats would be too near to bicornes, not sure about what other differences there might be.
No plan survives first contact with the dice.

Offline DintheDin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6214
Re: 15mm 7YW Saxons?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2018, 05:10:52 AM »
Not sure if this is useful or not, but would Eureka's 18mm Saxon Napoleonic range be acceptable?  I suspect the hats would be too near to bicornes, not sure about what other differences there might be.

I'm afraid, I wouldn't suggest this. As you said, the hats are bicornes, other big differences being at the collar, turnbacks narrower and turned at the back of the coat, position of buttons, etc.
Beautiful figures, though.

As long as a particular 7YW Saxon range does not exist in 15mm, the safest solution is to take 7YW Austrian figures and paint them with Saxon facings. 

Offline smirnoff

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 974
Re: 15mm 7YW Saxons?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2018, 10:20:29 AM »
Many thanks gents

Offline DintheDin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6214
Re: 15mm 7YW Saxons?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2018, 07:33:51 PM »
I'd like to quote a passage from Digby Smith's book "Armies of the Seven Years War" p.219 - The Electorate of Saxony

  "From 1735 to 1763, Saxony was ruled by Prince Elector Friedrich August II, who was also King August III of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania. Frederick the Great invaded neutral Saxony on 6 September 1756; the Saxon Army - which was completely unprepared - had been withdrawn into a geographically strong position just southeast of Pirna, on the right bank of the river Elbe, on 3 September. Their few supplies soon ran out and the numerically superior Prussians surrounded them, to starve them into submission. Friedrich August had entered a defensive alliance with Russia and Austria and appealed for help. Austria sent an army under Field Marshal Maximilian Graf von Browne, to rescue the Saxon troops. Frederick headed off this thrust with his victory over the Austrians at Lobositz on 1 October 1756. The 18,000 starving Saxons, under Field Marshal Graf Friedrich August von Rutowski, surrendered to the Prussians on 14 October.
  Frederick the Great at once tried to force the Saxon troops into his service, but all but 53 Saxon officers refused and were dismissed. Three of the Saxon infantry units (Leibgrenadier-Garde, Köningin and the grenadier battalion Kurprinzessin) flatly refused to swear allegiance to Prussia; their men were distributed among various Prussian regiments. The other ten Saxon infantry regiments were sworn in, organised on Prussian lines, issued with Prussian uniforms, presented with Prussian colours and given new, Prussian colonels-in-chief and officers (see Prussian chapter).
  The Saxon cavalry regiments Karabiniergarde, three regiments of Chevauxlegers (Prinz Albrecht, Graf Brühl and Prinz Karl) and the two Uhlan regiments were taken into Austrian pay and joined the army in 1757, participating in all campaigns till 1763. The Saxons forced into Prussian service deserted in droves and made their way south into Austrian territory and later Hungary. By October 1757 over 7000 men had been assembled there; they were formed into new regiments. On 11 March 1758, the New Saxon Army was taken into French service. To avoid contact with the Prussians, who would have shot any prisoners taken as deserters, they marched westward through southern Germany and arrived in Strassburg in July 1758. In September, they were attached to Contades' French Army in Westphalia. The regiments formed part of Chevert's and Fitzjames' divisions, reinforcing Soubise's army in Hessen. These Saxons first saw action at the battle of Lutterberg (10 October 1758), where their determined attacks decided the day for the French Army"

p. 221: "When these regiments were re-raised again to fight alongside the French and Austrians, they seem to have re-adopted their old uniform, with white coats and their old facings and buttons. Ten companies of grenadiers were raised from men of the kürassier regiments. They would have worn the fur-trimmed grenadier caps of Austrian style."

That is all you need to know about the 7YW Saxon Army.
And also this is the reason why it is a bit difficult for 15mm figure makers decide production of a separate set of Saxon figures... 

Offline smirnoff

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 974
Re: 15mm 7YW Saxons?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2018, 09:32:38 PM »
Splendid, many thanks.