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Author Topic: The saddest table  (Read 13149 times)

Offline pixelgeek

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #75 on: May 23, 2018, 02:13:20 PM »
The event in question is the London Grand Tournament and its an independent event and not run by GW. Not that this suddenly makes the terrain any better...

And someone was caught cheating at the event.

Offline Andrew Rae

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #76 on: May 23, 2018, 02:14:25 PM »
It’s a bit odd that this has become about some supposed decline in the aesthetic values of LAF members, when the original post is about something entirely unconnected to LAF that we were asked to pass judgement on.  lol

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2018, 02:49:37 PM »
My fault, no doubt  :)
Whenever someone posts something saying ‘isn’t this terrible’, we inevitably descend into this cycle of ‘don’t judge’ vs ‘yes, it’s terrible’.
I brought it back to LAF, as explained above, because wargaming toys and layouts and games that look great always seemed to me to be central to the (admittedly) unwritten ethos of this forum. Therefore don’t be surprised that there are some people here who are more critical of these things than the average bear.
Plynkes takes a different view, hence we have this regular discussion.

We’re all a bit odd here, aren’t we?  ;)

Offline Tactalvanic

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #78 on: May 23, 2018, 03:00:01 PM »
We’re all a bit odd here, aren’t we?  ;)

Absolutely and that is one of its best parts, all different, but still mostly civil about it.  :)

Its  almost certainly a compulsory requirement surely?

And yes its poor scenery, but hey - They pays their money and if its good enough for them that do, fair enough.

But its still what it is.

Offline mcfonz

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2018, 03:29:00 PM »
Wargaming is a broad church. In fact, it's probably better described as a chapel these days. As it has very much merged into the catch--all 'tabletop'.

Wargaming has never been purely about 'appearances' - it's about the 'game'. Original games were played with 'toy' soldiers, not always painted.

I never think talking about the origins of a forum and holding them up as a set of rules is a good thing. I have been there, done that, produced t-shirts and run games - literally.

In more cases than not, forums start off the way they do because of who is involved in starting them. It's not always an intention that the forum is going to advance and progress to be like that in the future, but more a shared interest that brought those founders together to get something started.

If LAF was only ever intended to be about beautiful painted miniatures and terrain I wouldn't have bothered joining or sticking about. There are places like CMON for that.

We also have to remember we all started once. None of us were born with the ability to just paint brilliant miniatures. We had to hone the level of ability we had and learn and develop.

I know I have had several folk give me tips and advice over the years. I'm not the best painter but I am happy enough with the level of painting I have achieved for tabletop painting.

I'm not interested in brilliant display pieces, because they are display pieces.

I want to encourage more people into this hobby - not surround it with an air of elitism and snobbery that would put them off.
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Offline FramFramson

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #80 on: May 23, 2018, 06:58:32 PM »
Perhaps newer members who aren't so fussed about the look of things, could overlook the occasional outburst from more longstanding members like me, who fondly remember when LAF was largely about great looking figures, models and terrain in games which were fun and cinematic in feel.

It isn't anymore? That would be news to me...


I joined my gun with pirate swords, and sailed the seas of cyberspace.

Offline Diablo Jon

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2018, 07:57:46 PM »
I've seen and played on equally ugly tables, yet not at a public event. To be fair, though, there were other tables with much better terrain (i.e. recognisable as such).
Also, LAF is perhaps the wrong place to discuss tournament gamers' attitude to wargaming. There seems to be little – if any – overlap and thus for the organisers understandably little reason to provide 'immersive' terrain to players who simply don't care anyway (cf. top right):



We just shouldn't bother.


bloody hell what's with the basilisk car park in top corner of that photo  :o lol.

if that's an actual game it might be short lived...

Offline tin shed gamer

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2018, 08:20:22 PM »
Still twaddle.

Online Cubs

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #83 on: May 23, 2018, 08:36:07 PM »
Too many cooks spoil the broth.
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

Paul Cubbin Miniature Painter

Offline tin shed gamer

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2018, 09:13:15 PM »
I've been cornered by many an anorak throwing this argument my way.
(normally when I've just got the bar and just put my first pint to my lips)
And this is what I reply.

If as you say miniatures and terrain don't matter and it's all about the tactics and the game play.
Then there is quite well established and international wargame that doesnt rely on terrain or painted figures already out there.
Its quite popular You may of heard of it. It's called Chess.

Offline Diablo Jon

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2018, 05:53:11 AM »
I've been cornered by many an anorak throwing this argument my way.
(normally when I've just got the bar and just put my first pint to my lips)
And this is what I reply.

If as you say miniatures and terrain don't matter and it's all about the tactics and the game play.
Then there is quite well established and international wargame that doesnt rely on terrain or painted figures already out there.
Its quite popular You may of heard of it. It's called Chess.


Ah but Chess lacks armylists no ones going to let you play with your new all Rook army or let you exploit that loop hole in the rules to field 4 queens.... ;)

Online Plynkes

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2018, 07:01:01 AM »

We shall no doubt remain mutually unconvinced! ;)


Hmmm. I think what we may have is actually a communication problem. You seem to be assaulting a position that I'm not actually defending. I don't think I ever said appearances don't matter,. All I am advocating is a little bit more Live and let Live and a little less In my Day, Lad...

I'm sure there is misunderstanding on my part, too. I'm sure, as you say, that you aren't saying "If you don't do the hobby like me then you're doing it wrong", but unfortunately that is how you tend to come across when you wheel out the same old comments whenever seeing the purity of LAF marred by yet another green felt tablecloth sends you over the edge.  ;)

Oh well. I think perhaps it is time for me to stop banging my head against this particular wall, at least for the time being, as we don't seem to be getting through to each other in the slightest. Some things just never change.  lol

With Cat-Like Tread
Upon our prey we steal...

Offline Keith

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2018, 07:11:21 AM »
I do enjoy these little moments and it's been a while :-)

I'm firmly in the 'make it look as good as you can' category, but having kids with 10 minute attention spans has put that under some stress over the last few years. Standards have dropped in an effort to strike while the interest is there (at least at home).

An infrequent Blog http://small-wars.com

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #88 on: May 24, 2018, 07:24:57 AM »
Hmmm. I think what we may have is actually a communication problem. You seem to be assaulting a position that I'm not actually defending. I don't think I ever said appearances don't matter,. All I am advocating is a little bit more Live and let Live and a little less In my Day, Lad...

Then we agree - happy days  :)
Appearances do matter, and there are many levels of accomplishment, all of which are fine with me. I’ve never said every table should look like a diorama. All I’ve maintained is that appearances do matter. So the only time you get an ‘in my day, lad’ from me, is when presented with outright shite like the picture at the head of this thread. Where someone obviously doesn’t think appearances matter.

As for the weary, sneery old accusation of ‘elitism and snobbery’ (which is made sooner or later every time we have one of these threads), well, if liking great looking figures and terrain is elitism, I can only say I’ve never yet met a wargamer who isn’t drawn to ‘eye candy’ like a moth to a flame. Ditto lavish display games and wargames rules books stuffed with gorgeous colour photos. So I guess there are a lot of elitists in this hobby  ::)

Offline Mr Brown

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Re: The saddest table
« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2018, 10:03:01 AM »
It's not simply a case of saying that liking great looking figures and terrain is elitism though is it? Making judgements about the level of care and attention people take on their wargaming based on a few photos on a forum is pretty skewed anyway. I'm not going to disagree on the premise that we all probably aspire to have better this or better that but to make sweeping comments on the effort and care (note not skill) is in my opinion harsh.

I've seen a table where I know that the individual involved spent countless hours on the figures and terrain. Personally, I didn't think it was that great but the care and effort were there. Had they posted on the LAF maybe some individuals would have lumped them in with the 'couldn't care less' mob.

I think its safe to say that this cycle of comments won't change anyone's minds as the points being made seem to be lost.

Back to the main topic though. I appreciate that there is a move to make everything standardised in certain branches of competitive play but I'd be hacked off if I paid that sum to play on those tables. I wouldn't as I don't have any inclination towards competitive play (arguments over interpretations or measurements instead of good humorous banter with chums?.. Count me out.). That said, its amazing what some rattle cans and a couple of hours with an airbrush can do with even the most basic of terrain materials. Some of the Infinity terrain stuff Ive seen online is fantastic with nothing more than some cardboard, polystyrene, and a plan. What was it William Regal said about the six Ps?
Thats proper planning prevents piss poor performance :)