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Author Topic: Derby Show 2018  (Read 3044 times)

Offline armchairgeneral

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Derby Show 2018
« on: May 28, 2018, 09:17:38 AM »
I understand the Derby show will be held on 6/7th October this year. But will it be at Bruntingthorpe Proving Ground again? I personally didn’t have a problem with the venue but I get the impression some found it too cramped.

Offline armchairgeneral

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 06:46:47 PM »
So does nobody know? Not even the organisers or any traders?

Offline has.been

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2018, 08:06:22 PM »
Not heard a dick-bird about it.
Mutterings after the 2017 one were, might not happen at all.
I had no problem with the venue, heck I live only 15 minutes away, so for me it is great.
Problems that seemed to have occurred:-
Putting the 'Trade at table' & the 'Bring & buy' so far apart (both want the same audience);
Squeezing the traders of space, while giving so much of the hall over to competition games;
Paucity  of signage to find it (I, as a local, had the advantage of a recce the weekend before) and
(another personal view) The Trade at table....well the actual tables were only four foot, could have been
at least six foot.

Offline fastolfrus

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 11:01:20 PM »
Heard rumours that it might not be on.
Arrived late last year, so only had a very short time to look around the show.
Yes it seemed crowded, layout was not what you would expect from an experienced team.
As a plus side, you didn't have the non-stop drone of racing cars outside the door.
But not an easy venue to find - the venue gets used for other things so they could probably do with improving their signposting anyway, regardless of who is using the space.
Gary, Glynis, and Alasdair (there are three of us, but we are too mean to have more than one login)

Offline Lovejoy

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2018, 10:59:14 AM »
No trade booking forms have been sent out, anyway. We were told they'd be sent after Salute, but nothing so far... it looks highly doubtful to me.

Offline Dags

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2018, 11:02:25 AM »
According to the venue it was cancelled at Christmas. If it goes somewhere else (and where is there relatively local?) there will be a hefty cancellation fee

Offline armchairgeneral

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2018, 10:08:19 PM »
A big shame if it’s cancelled. I go most years. The new venue was a bit crowded but not so bad. I felt there was a good atmosphere and the food had improved as well  :)

Offline armchairgeneral

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 10:58:04 PM »
Thought I ought to post this received from the show organisers a week after the event.

Hi All,

Here is a summary of the Derby Worlds 2017 show.  We appreciate all the efforts made by traders, tournament players, demo games and participation games to help ensure the show was a success.  As you are all aware, in March this year, Donington, with no notice cancelled our booking (which was made in March 2016!), and we still have not given the deposit back.  We were faced with cancelling the show or getting something underway.  Options were limited as we needed a large enough venue which also had that date available and as the only viable option was Hangar 42 we elected to go for that rather than simply cancelling the show.  A show rarely recovers from a missed year.  Whilst the new venue certainly has improved lighting, parking and overall facilities, the 20% less usable floor area compared to Donington was always going to be an interim challenge.  Many people think we chose to move venue, but I can assure you we did not want to.  It created a massive amount of unplanned work and substantial cost too.  For clarification, Donington no longer host events, and even the car boot sales, antique sales etc have been left in the same situation as us.

Overall the show went well with the vast majority of attendees both enjoying it and appreciating that it did in fact take place.  As anticipated, the total attendees were slightly down compared with 2016, and that was expected with the venue change.  Total number of paying visitors were 16% down at 1458 over the weekend compared to 1728 in 2016.

We advertised heavily in the press in the 6 months ahead of the show and on Facebook, Twitter and gave out over 20,000 flyers with the new location and details on there, as well as adding direction signs at all major junctions heading to the venue.

The main challenge in regard to space on the day, is that a small minority of traders took a very selfish line and for example having booked a 12ft x 6ft stand, took a 12ft x 10ft space and so reduced the aisle width as well as taking space from other traders, forcing further issues.  Others with a 24ft x 6ft booking ignored direct requests to them (and us physically moving their tables back to the stand size they had booked) and created a 26ft x 9ft stand, again compromising the aisles and other trade stands. The vast majority of traders were hugely supportive of the event continuing and were extremely helpful throughout the weekend, and a number of them even compromised their stands in light of others actions of others.  We are truly thankful to those.  Some traders and demos already have booked for 2018.  Two of our staff members who were key to running the event did not turn up for work despite having those 3 days of the show booked in their work schedule.  That situation has been resolved.  The company setting delivering and setting up the tables were scheduled to be finished at 12.00 and did not finish until after 14.00 which compounded the issue too.

The feedback on the catering was positive, especially in comparison to Donington.  Likewise many visitors liked the fact they could pay their entry by card and keep cash for the show.  The cash machines with free withdrawals were relatively popular, and enabled many to take cash out for show purchases.  The vouchers given out for the tournament entrants worked well and certainly ensure a good flow of sales from the tournament players.

As is the way of the world, it is easy to post negative comments on internet forums and I am sure you have read some of them.  Sadly none of them have taken any time to find out the background or future plans, and indeed contain inaccuracies.  Surprisingly some traders have also made posts too rather than establish any facts.  Some of you have written in, or phoned in, and given us constructive feedback for 2018.  The actions we can put in place are key to the show continuing in 2018 and beyond.  It is nice to note that there is a balance out there and some have taken a more positive tone, with a clear knowledge of the issues that Donington created for us at short notice.

Certainly for 2018 the following actions are being implemented, and I am sure further ones will too.

Marquee outside for Tournaments to allow us to create 8ft trader stands plus 8ft aisles in the main hall.
Marquee outside for Tournaments with booking-in to reduce the tournament entry queues.
Additional signs for the toilets (as although on the plan some were unaware of the 2 toilet blocks on the far side of the hall)
Even more signs at junctions leading to the venue.
Increased Derby Worlds staff.
Look at how we can have the 2nd roller shutter accessed for setup/breakdown too.
Revise the setting up of the tables to increase the start time available on Friday for setting up from at least midday.

Derby Worlds 2018 will be on the 6th and 7th October 2018.  We anticipate with the actions in place as above that the event will run much more smoothly in 2018, though any thoughts and directions appreciated as ever to ensure that Derby Worlds continues to be a key event on the Wargaming calendar.

Kind regards
Josh

Offline has.been

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2018, 10:39:17 AM »
Thanks for taking the time to post this.
I take it from your comments it will be the same venue, which is great for me
as I live in Rugby.

Offline Dags

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2018, 11:37:55 AM »
 It won't be - I've spoken to the venue and they told me the booking was cancelled

Offline armchairgeneral

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2018, 12:12:22 PM »
As I mentioned the message was from the organisers a week after the show.

Sadly it doesn't look at the moment that the Derby show will happen this year. A big shame. I personally didn't mind the venue. It was a bit constricted but now I know the constraints the organisers were under I think they did very well under the circumstances.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 01:08:30 PM by armchairgeneral »

Offline Dags

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2018, 10:38:03 AM »
They've finally come clean and admitted it won't be happening.

Link for those that FB:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2020155788034897&id=348198075230685

Offline has.been

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2018, 01:10:38 PM »
Thanks Dags for posting that. Not good news, but at least it remove some of the uncertainty.
Does not tell us where for 2019 though.

Offline armchairgeneral

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2018, 01:41:42 PM »
Recently posted on Facebook by Leon of Pendraken Miniatures

As some of you might have seen, over this past weekend the Derby Worlds organisers confirmed that there will be no Worlds event this year and that they are going to be back in 2019 with a new venue.  Sadly there is a lot more to this than most people will be aware of and there has been a lot of discussion over the past 9 months.  It’s not often we make announcements like this, the last was after the final Triples show, but sometimes these things need to be said.

So if you’ve got a few minutes to spare…

After the 2016 Derby Worlds event in Donington, it was announced that KR Multicase would be taking over the organisation for the following year.  Due to Donington no longer taking external bookings, they had to move venue and decided on Bruntingthorpe Proving Ground to the south of Leicester.  This immediately raised concerns among many of the traders as this new venue is quite literally in the middle of nowhere, there are no main roads, no public transport and no hotels. 

The prices for a 6ft trade stand were increased, but KR were doing a lot of advertising for the event and its new location, online and in magazines.  However, the stand depths had also been reduced, making the stands almost as expensive as Salute on a £ per sq/m basis.  Many of the traders contacted KR about this, but we were generally told that a 6ft depth was ‘standard for most wargames shows’ even though this is clearly not the case.  Despite the reservations, the traders were generally hopeful that the new venue would work, we’d been told by KR that the added advertising would lead to 2000+ visitor numbers and so we hoped that things would be OK.

Sadly this was not the case and the event was as one trader put it ‘The worst organised event in 40 years and 750 shows of trading.’  This covered everything from finding the venue, the unloading access, the size of the trade stands, the parking and finally the attitude of the organiser.  There’s a lot more that can be said at this point, but we don’t have space for it all.

Now a venue change is always a difficult thing to pull off, we’ve had to do it ourselves, but there are some basic questions you always ask of any potential venue:

> Is it big enough for the event? – No.  Despite the new venue being about 20% smaller than Donington, it seemed that the organisers had just crammed in the same number of traders/games/competitions from the previous year.  This bordered on dangerous and an off-duty fire officer visiting on the Sunday said that he would have shut it down.  Wheelchair users couldn’t get down the aisles, there was 4ft gaps between game tables and our aisle was maybe 5ft across.

> Is it easy for people to get to? – No.  Getting to the venue meant travelling down country roads, less than 2 cars wide. 

> Is there public transport to the venue? – No.

> Can the traders get in easily? – No.  Once 8-10 vans had got lined up at the only access door available, the others were left with walks of 100 yards or more to get their stock in.  There were fire doors that we weren’t allowed to open and a pair of hangar doors that we were told don’t open.

> Is there accomodation nearby? – No.  The nearest hotel was nearly 30 minutes away and expensive.

> Is there catering on site? – Yes.  We can tick this box as there was a catering tent on site. 

Now there will always be compromise on those questions, it's almost impossible to find a perfect venue. But when you've got a 'No' to the most important aspects, it’s difficult to understand how this could be seen as a good choice? Again, there’s some sympathy for them at being dumped out of Donington, but if a suitable venue couldn’t be found then would it have been a better idea to just have a year off and come back bigger and better in 2018.

When you combine all of the above, the end result is never going to be good.  In the 9 years I’ve been attending shows full-time, I have never seen the traders so frustrated and angry at a show organiser.  The dismissal of any concerns and at times the arrogance when dealing with people who had paid a lot of money to be there was infuriating for many of us.  After the event, there were extensive discussions among the traders and 26 companies co-signed a letter to the Worlds organisers, raising our concerns and asking for some feedback on what was going to be changed for the 2018 event.  There were several more companies who agreed with the letter, but didn’t want to sign it for fear of repercussions. 

Now, I know that sometimes traders get stick for complaining about things, but for over a third of the traders at an event to come together in agreement is unprecedented in this industry.  The letter was constructive, clear and polite, offering positive feedback where possible.

Shortly after the event, and before our letter was sent, the traders received a lengthy email regarding the show.  The email went through several points but was generally blaming the poor venue on Donington for forcing them to move, blaming the poor setup organisation on the table company and blaming the space restrictions on ‘a small minority of traders who took a very selfish line…’  This email stated that the 'vast majority of attendees enjoyed the event' which was surprising considering the lack of positive comments anywhere online, where nearly everything had been overwhelmingly negative.  Another highlight was 'As anticipated, the overall number of attendees was down...' despite them telling us repeatedly that they were expecting over 2000 visitors. There was no ownership at all of the issues that everyone had experienced, or even a basic apology for the event not being what we all expected it to be.

The trader letter was then sent and we received another lengthy response from Daryl at KR.  Without posting the whole thing, they admitted that with all of the potential issues with the venue it would be better to have cancelled the 2017 event, but Daryl decided to run it anyway.    Two traders were named and shamed for taking more stand space than they should have and causing all the space problems, yet other space offenders (who coincidentally hadn’t signed the trader letter) were not mentioned.  The rest of this email continued to blame a variety of factors with no acknowledgement of their own failings and the traders were essentially told that KR had saved the event and if we didn’t like it we should go and run it ourselves.

The one concession given in the response was the space constraints of the venue and that they’d be looking into hiring a marquee for the 2018 event to put the competition games in and allow more of the floorspace to be used by the traders.  This is a good idea, but not really practical given that there’s not a lot of spare space outside the venue without taking up car parking spaces.

At this point things went quiet, as with no real response to the traders concerns, each trader was left to make their own decision as to whether they would attend or not.  This decision was helped by the introduction of two new shows, Tabletop Gaming Live in London and Chillcon in Derby, so many traders have chosen to attend these instead.

Over the first few months of 2018 there were several messages to KR/Derby Worlds asking whether the show was on and what dates would it be.  Replies confirmed that it would be at the same venue on the same weekend as usual.  There were no trader forms sent out, but we were told that it was just a staffing issue and that the forms would be sent out after Salute.

At the start of May we were wanting to get our hotels booked for the rest of the year’s shows, so with no information from KR/Derby Worlds, we rang the venue to confirm the dates for the event.  At this point we were told that the event booking had been cancelled at the start of the year and there was no Derby Worlds for 2018.  The person at Bruntingthorpe told us that due to KR signing a 3 year contract with them, they were supposed to pay a cancellation fee, but on the basis that the event wasn’t happening, they had agreed to waive the fee.

So despite the event booking being cancelled, KR were still telling everyone that it was happening for this year at that same venue.  Obviously this came as quite a shock to all of the traders and people we’ve spoken with, even more so when the public announcement of this has only just come to light now.  There are competition gamers coming from the USA who have booked their flights and accommodation based on this false information.

Many of the traders have contacted KR between May and their announcement, to get info or booking forms for the event but we’ve all been told the same ‘Yes it’s happening and we’ll have the forms out soon.’  However, one trader was told ‘We thought you weren’t coming this year’ and when he queried why they thought that, the response from KR was ‘It might be worth checking your sent items then and checking what you co-sign.’  This immediately raised the concern among the traders that anyone who had co-signed the letter was now blacklisted from the event.  This may still be the case as with it now being cancelled we’ve got no way of knowing who would be getting an invite.

I’ve tried to summarise everything that’s been happening as best I can but there’s a lot that’s been left out.  Highlights include:

- The organisers refusing all offers of help and advice, even from people involved in the previous Worlds events.
- One visitor asking in advance of the event on their Facebook page if service dogs were allowed in, but no response to their query.
- One trader querying having to park our vans in a field, who was told ‘Well there’s no rain forecast and if you do get stuck I’m sure we can find a tractor.’
- Members of KR’s own staff who quit the week before the event, including the person who was supposed to be running the Aeon One game.
- The main organiser of the show left his own event on the Sunday to avoid talking to the traders.
- One trader since the event has been offered a half-price stand for keeping quiet and not complaining.
- The Donington venue was £18,000 to hire for the weekend, the new Bruntingthorpe venue was £12,000, yet the trade stand prices went up.
- The creation of the Aeon One game, something that many of the other traders have got quite strong feelings on.
- The Derby Worlds Facebook page having no updates after the event, not even a ‘Thanks for coming’ or similar.
And this brings us up to date, so thanks for reading this far. 

This whole situation has been a long 9 months for the traders and could have been avoided if the Derby Worlds organisers had just acknowledged the issues from the start.  Mistakes happen but you have to take ownership of them and work on what can be done better next time.  Instead, the organisers have blamed everyone and everything else and see themselves as the saviours for this show.  As it stands now, there are 2 (possibly 3) new events at that point in the calendar that the traders will be looking at instead, and a large number of the visitors who came to the Worlds won’t be going back again. 

Now there are always two sides to these things and I understand the issues that were caused by losing the venue, having staff quit, tables arriving late, all of these things.  I’m sure KR will say that they’ve tried their best, but the way that they’ve dealt with people has been unprofessional and bordered on arrogant.

I don’t know what the future is for the event at this point.  The traders have tried to explore other options in the Derby area but the affordable venues are too small and the big venues are too expensive.  With the number of traders who won’t be attending the event again, maybe a smaller venue can work, but I would worry about the organisation of it under the current management.

I hope the event can continue in some form as it was such a staple on the wargames calendar for so many years.  I also have a huge amount of sympathy for Nigel and the guys who ran the show successfully for so many years.  There were niggles along the way but they took them on board and grew the show constantly.  To see things unfold like this must be quite difficult for them.

And finally, I’m sure that by putting my head above the parapet like this, Pendraken/Minibits won’t be welcome to attend either way, but sometimes these things need to be said.  The traders have tried everything we can behind-the-scenes for months, so maybe it’s time for all of this to be made public.

Here’s the TMP thread after the show and also the Meeples and Miniatures blog post about the event:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=464452
https://meeples.wordpress.com/2017/10/10/derby-worlds-from-top-show-to-no-go-in-one-weekend/






Offline has.been

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Re: Derby Show 2018
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2018, 10:13:53 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to post all of that.
It is a shame that rather than fix the problems, and I think they could be fixed, the decision has been to cancel 'Derby' for 2018. The notice of which was so late in coming as to leave a bad taste.
I hope it does return in 2019 & I for one had no problem with the venue, but then it is nearer to me as I live in Rugby.