Epic40k v Epic Armageddon

[ork56]

What are the changes if any, between original epic rules and those in Armageddon?

Thanks

[Torben]

There are a lot of little changes, but the biggest two would be how you activate your units and how you conduct combat.

For activation, players alternate in activating detachments. However, once an activation is completed you can attempt to retain the initiative and activate another detachment by rolling an initiative check. If successful, you activate an additional detachment, if failed, they will idle.

As for combat, units now have three values; Close Combat, Firefight and Ranged, and then have values for what you will need to roll equal to or higher than when engaging enemies at these ranges (base-contact, 6" and anything beyond).

I would recommend that you find the free, online, version of the rules and skim them through for yourself to see all the differences

[AWu]

And lets add that the activations are not free, you have to pass order roll, and it is more difficult if you try to retain priority and  activate for a second tome.

They are very different game both in feel and mechanics.

[Mr Kissyfur]

The detachment organisation is very different also - Epic 40k (I'd suggest checking the NetEpic iteration if you don't have the original) is in my opinion much better, and more 40k-ish, than the Armageddon approach...

I'd agree with Torben's suggestion! Check them online and see what you like the look of!

[AWu]

IMHO Armageddon is absolute superior game. Ive played every incarnation since Space Marine (2nd edition).

But that is an opinion. Its personal taste.

Agree look at rules and battle reports online

[waitwhat]

original epic rules

Now there hangs a tale

[audrey]

Original Epic rules, as in Space Marine Epic (late 1980s) or Epic 40k which came out in the mid 90s (1995ish?)? Epic 40k added blast marker to the game. Brought in Firefights as "40k scale game". But they made everything too generic stat wise. Epic Armageddon brought back some of the detail without going too crazy. To me, EA is kind of the second edition of Epic 40k.

Anyhow short answer, I like Epic Armageddon as the better set of rules. But you can find the rules online for most if not all editions of Epic. Read them over and see what you like.

-Audrey

[Mr Kissyfur]

Original Epic rules, as in Space Marine Epic (late 1980s) or Epic 40k which came out in the mid 90s (1995ish?)? Epic 40k added blast marker to the game. Brought in Firefights as "40k scale game". But they made everything too generic stat wise. Epic Armageddon brought back some of the detail without going too crazy. To me, EA is kind of the second edition of Epic 40k.

Really? I think what killed EA for me was the abstraction of the delights of the myriad Ork vehicles down to "battlewagon"... It also seemed a bit too aggregated on the weapon side of things - what was multiple specific weapons for each Land Raider in Epic40k became fire points in EA, from memory? I also don't remember the blast markers being a thing in Epic40k. I thought they came in with EA? I'll open both the boxes when I get home, as I still have both in the cupboard waiting for me to do something with them

[Daeothar]

Jervis Johnson and Andy Chambers both still regard Epic 40K as the best ruleset they ever wrote. Depending on your opinion of their other products, this may mean something or nor, but it is true that it did place tactical accumen over dice-rolling luck. And I agree that that is a major element in making a game enjoyable or not (an opinion obviously formed by my abysmal luck at rolling those cursed cubes ).

I have all the Epic scale large boxes bar Adeptus Mechanicus, which has eluded me so far, and if my memory serves me right, Epic 40K has slide-together '3D' explosion markers, as opposed to flat tokens in previous versions.

And I was under the impression that Epic: Armageddon was never released as a boxed set at all, but only as two hardcover books?

[Mr Kissyfur]

Jervis Johnson and Andy Chambers both still regard Epic 40K as the best ruleset they ever wrote. Depending on your opinion of their other products, this may mean something or nor, but it is true that it did place tactical accumen over dice-rolling luck. And I agree that that is a major element in making a game enjoyable or not (an opinion obviously formed by my abysmal luck at rolling those cursed cubes ).

I have all the Epic scale large boxes bar Adeptus Mechanicus, which has eluded me so far, and if my memory serves me right, Epic 40K has slide-together '3D' explosion markers, as opposed to flat tokens in previous versions.

And I was under the impression that Epic: Armageddon was never released as a boxed set at all, but only as two hardcover books?

You know what, you're right I've confused my self - I've got Space Marine 2nd Ed and Epic 40k - I was thinking 2nd ed was Epic 40k and Epic 40k was Armageddon... *faceplam*

I much prefer Space Marine 2nd Ed to Epic 40k for the reasons above (just swap game references accordingly )

[AWu]

Epic 40K works very well but its different kind of game.. It gained much more love as Battle fleet Gothic
Abstracted firepower table worked much better there.

Try Epic Armageddon. Its seriously best Epic out there.

[warlord frod]

I agree with "Mr Kissyfur" Space Marine 2nd ed. was the best version of the game and I still play it occasionally. If you go all the way back to the version published in White Dwarf you will see that later versions went back to that version where you built units. I did not like the way you built units in later versions. It felt very much like you where building units for the firepower factor they generated not because they made sense. I don't know if Armageddon corrected that because I never purchased that version. Granted the idea of suppression fire was interesting but I still think the 2nd ed. rules where just so much more fun (Especially for Ork players)and the card system for building armies so much easier. One last point I really hated the change in basing. The square bases looked so much better IMHO. 

[YPU]

It's also worth noting that epic Armageddon has a relatively active scene still, who have a free fully updated and faq'd version of the rules online for free. They also keep developing new army lists and actively updating and balancing them. There is a small Dutch group that is just starting up in epic and this "net EA". Version has the big preference for us I think, you can find it here: http://www.net-armageddon.org/page/army-lists