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Author Topic: Good books on the WotR  (Read 1944 times)

Offline Bartman

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Good books on the WotR
« on: September 05, 2018, 02:59:32 PM »
So, I have recently revived an old project of 6mm WotR. I was hoping that I could get some recommendations on some reading about the wars. I'm looking for books on the military side of the wars, battles, leaders of said battles and general military history. There is so much out there on this subject, it is difficult to sort out what is good and what is not so good. I do have all the Freezywater publications already, as well as Haigh's book on the campaigns. Any other suggestions would greatly appreciated.

regards, Bill

Offline Charlie_

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2018, 05:33:19 PM »
I'm sure you probably already know them, but the Osprey Campaign Series are really good, very in-depth accounts of battles and the campaigns leading up to them, with FANTASTIC Graham Turner artwork - worth getting just for the artwork to be honest! They have three WOTR oens - Towton, Tewkesbury (and Barnet) and Bosworth.

I have an interesting book simply called The Wars Of The Roses by Desmond Seward, it details five men and women of the era, so sort of tells the whole story of the wars through these five people, but it's by no means a complete account and I'd never recommend it to someone new to the subject - but it seems you're not, so you might find it interesting, could learn about some historical figures you didn't know much about or see the wars from a new angle. The five people are Margaret Beaufort (mother of Henry Tudor), John Morton (a cleric), John de Vere, Earl Of Oxford (Lancastrian), Lord Hastings (Yorkist) and Jane Shore (mistress of Edward IV, but most of her chapters are actually about her father John Lambert, a London alderman). It doesn't actually have much on military matters, but you might find it an interesting read. I found the chapters on Oxford the most interesting.

Offline Cubs

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2018, 05:53:16 PM »
Conn Iggulden has a great WOTR historical fiction series of 4 books, which probably does for the WOTR what Sharpe did for the Peninsular War. The author takes a few liberties with times, characters and places, and it is of course a dramatic fiction not a textbook, but it makes some of the alliances, families, motivations and relationships easier to follow.
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

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Offline Elk101

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2018, 06:19:46 PM »
Worth a read are:

The Wars of the Roses by Robin Neillands
The Wars of the Roses by John Gillingham
The Sun of York by Mary Clive
The Wars of the Roses by Trevor Royle
The Wars of the Roses a Concise History by Charles Ross

Offline rivers3162

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2018, 09:33:08 PM »
Historical fiction wise, I can also recommend Conn Iggulden’s series.

History wise, I can recommend

George Goodwin - Fatal Colours (about Towton but still covers a lot of ground)
Alison Weir - Lancaster & York
Dan Jones - The Hollow Crown
Helen Castor - Blood and Roses
David Baldwin - Stoke Field (obviously quite a niche book but a fascinating look at the last gasp of the Yorkist cause)

Offline levied troop

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2018, 06:01:10 AM »
I found ‘The Wars of The Roses: The Soldiers Experience’ by Anthony Goodman to be an excellent study of the low level issues and he does a good overview in ‘The Wars-of the Roses: Military Activity and English Society 1452-97’.
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Offline Bartman

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2018, 03:29:06 PM »
Thank you for your suggestions gents. That's a long list of must reads.

How about books on the major players, any must reads?

regards, Bill

Offline Elk101

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2018, 04:47:02 PM »
For major players I really enjoyed The Sun of York that I mentioned above. It gave me a better appreciation of Edward than I'd previously had.

Offline Cubs

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2018, 05:01:11 PM »
'Sun of York' is a fantastic book, one of my all time faves - but getting hold of a copy can be like finding rocking horse poo.

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2018, 07:14:33 AM »
I think they’re referring to a different Sun of York, Cubs. Not our favourite one by Ronald Welch  :'(  ;)

Must confess, I didn’t much enjoy the Conn Iggulden series. Quite of lot of things wrong in both the history and the period detail. And all a bit formulaic.

Another vote for the Ospreys - I’ve got several on this period, both the campaign series (Towton, Tewkesbury, Bosworth etc)  and the essential histories. Very readable, tell you everything you need to know, and with the bonus of Graham Turner’s gorgeous and evocative colour plates. Lush.

Offline Cubs

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2018, 07:54:51 AM »
I think they’re referring to a different Sun of York, Cubs. Not our favourite one by Ronald Welch  :'(  ;)

It was all going so well ...

Must confess, I didn’t much enjoy the Conn Iggulden series. Quite of lot of things wrong in both the history and the period detail. And all a bit formulaic.

… and then you had to go and do this. You crossed a line man, you crossed a line.

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2018, 08:24:57 AM »
lol I just can’t help myself...

I didn’t hate them. And I read all four of them. Just felt a bit ‘by numbers’ to me.

Sun of York on the other hand. Bang on period and thrilling. Did you get a copy in the end? I still have the one I borrowed from the school library 40 years ago  ;)

Offline Cubs

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2018, 08:51:08 AM »
Sun of York on the other hand. Bang on period and thrilling. Did you get a copy in the end? I still have the one I borrowed from the school library 40 years ago  ;)

Yeah, my brother got it for me for my birthday last year. I didn't ask what he paid for it, so he didn't say!

Offline Arlequín

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2018, 01:33:59 AM »
I found ‘The Wars of The Roses: The Soldiers Experience’ by Anthony Goodman to be an excellent study of the low level issues and he does a good overview in ‘The Wars-of the Roses: Military Activity and English Society 1452-97’.

If I had to recommend one single book, the second of those two would be it. As with any history though, it's still an interpretation of sources, rather than St. Anthony's Gospel. He does have the advantage of having worked on primary source material, which is something most authors seem to have neglected to do.

There are no 'eye witness' accounts of the battles and sources can easily be taken out of context, or errors cribbed verbatim to produce recurring errors that become 'indisputable facts' over time. One popular source used is actually from a century beyond the time claimed; a prime example of one man's error becoming another's fact.

 ;)

I would be wary of most books about Bosworth too, as authors typically bend things to suit their interpretation of the lie of the land, which as we now know, wasn't actually where the battle was fought.

For all that, the Ospreys do give the 'spirit' of the time and Graham Turner's illustrations are very evocative. If you want to get in the mood for getting figures on the table, buy the Osprey's. If you want to begin decades of serious research that will end in frustration and the feeling of knowing less than when you began, start with Goodman.

 :)

Offline black hat miniatures

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Re: Good books on the WotR
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2018, 09:01:23 AM »
I would rate the Alison Weir book very highly

Mike
Mike Lewis

Black Hat Miniatures
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