Middle-Earth games: Where should I start?

[steders]

Would just say about the GW SBG rules that they are fantastic in my opinion and we've played some huge games (Battle of five armies, Helms deep, Last Alliance) and if you keep the number of heroes down to a minimum it makes record keeping very easy.
For the minor orc/human/uruk captains we put a marker next to them for their 1 might, they don't get fate or will in our games. Once its used they lose the marker.
Gearing up to play Pelennor fields and need to paint a shed load of Easterlings.

[Munindk]

If you dont want to use GWs rules, which look very good but are somewhat expensive there's a whole market of manufacturer independent systems you can pick up cheap.

I've only tried Dragon Rampant but I think its a good cheap system that could easily be used for Middel-Earth games.  It goes for £10-12 and since its generic, you can use it for all sorts of other games too.

If you like plastic models there's the Oathmark fantasy kits and lots of historical kits (Perry Miniatures, Fireforge, Conquest Games, Gripping Beast, Warlord Games)you can use as is or kitbash to build your own vision of the different Middle-Earth armies. Since the GW Middle-Earth models are closer to 28mm than their more heroic ranges, you should be able to mix them in too.

A word of warning though, the Oathmark Dwarves are significantly larger than the GW Dwarves, but the Oathmark Goblins fit in very well with GW Orcs however.

[Commander Carnage]

I would recommend the GW rules. They are solid and work for small to medium sized games. Like any other set of rules the games are best when they are scenario driven. The new box set is decent value for GW stuff and the minis are nice.

Sellswords and Spellslingers could be very cool for Middle Earth with some tweaking.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Would just say about the GW SBG rules that they are fantastic in my opinion and we've played some huge games (Battle of five armies, Helms deep, Last Alliance) and if you keep the number of heroes down to a minimum it makes record keeping very easy.
For the minor orc/human/uruk captains we put a marker next to them for their 1 might, they don't get fate or will in our games. Once its used they lose the marker.
Gearing up to play Pelennor fields and need to paint a shed load of Easterlings.

Have you played the Battle Companies variant of these rules?  They sound interesting. 

[Darathar]

There's really two ways of looking at it to me.

1). The "official" route so the pros of the official route are:
They look exactly like the movies
Its an official supported game
Its in stores
It's a good game
The minis are SOOOOO good
I guess now its an expanding range

Cons:
Its expensive especially ForgeWorld releases... atleast in Australia anyway
If your looking for unofficial miniatures in that scale they can be hard to find.
Its not that main stream in some areas so games can be hard to find (depending on where you live)
The whole theme is based around the movies and lots of scenarios reflect it.
You do need quite a few figures to get started.
Most importantly you are at the mercy of GW they pretty much haven't done much with the game for years up until recently so if it doesn't sell well enough now or if they drop the license then that's it i guess.

The "unofficial" route pros:
Its whatever your aesthetic of Middle Earth is.
Alot of companies make really good minis in the Tolkein Aesthetic
They are alot cheaper
You can choose what ever rules in what ever scale you want to play
Its a much easier sell to friends especially if you start them off with Song Of Blades and Heroes
You can play any faction in any age you wish.

Cons:
Its not "official" which bothers some people
There can be bouncing around with lots of rules
It's even harder to find games for certain systems
It's not the films which again bothers some people
It can be hard to find the right look for certain factions you want to collect

Personally I have collections of both official and unofficial minis but I don't play SBG anymore. I'd recommend either Song Of blades and heroes for small scale easy to play conflict and Dragon Rampant for bigger games, though once Oathmark drops it could be the way to go for large scale Middle Earth warfare

Both are a good way to go depends on your local scene and gaming mates as to what you can do i guess. Good luck with deciding.


 

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

@Darathar

I don't agree with this point "If your looking for unofficial miniatures in that scale they can be hard to find."
The very first GW LOTR figures were quite small - Men of Minis Tirith and Men of Rohan. However, all the later releases are larger and can easily be mixed with lots of Fantasy ranges (Reaper, Hasslefree, Otherworld, Oathmark) and also with many Dark Ages ranges.

Mick

[steders]

Have you played the Battle Companies variant of these rules?  They sound interesting.

I haven't. My son and I have tended to alter stuff as we go to fit in with how we think the troops should be. Riders of rohan got buffed, orcs don't get shield bonuses, Ringwraiths got upgraded slightly (it never sat right that the black riders shit themselves and run away if Aragorn turns up).

[Darathar]

@Mick_in_Switzerland

Yeah my bad I didn't really explain properly
I have most of the minis you mentioned plus some damn fine redbox games minis for both my lotr collections.

I'm just cautious of other peoples perception of scale when giving advice as some would expect the exact proportions of the old plastics.

To me is this in scale with this GW Rohan warrior? yes.





To other people I game with its not for some reason.

Same with these



To me this is out of scale


To others its fine.

"Scale" can be an odd thing among wargammers i find. 

[Nord]

That guy in the middle is stood on a big rock!    But yeah, take your point.

Scale is a tricky one, but if you look at real people there are plenty of examples that resemble your latter photo. In gaming terms though, most like similar scales in their collection, particularly in a regiment, if not a complete army. Often it's not the height that matters (25mm, 28mm, 32 mm or whatever), but it's more the bulkiness of the figure that makes them most jarring. Your two Rohan warriors just about get along together for me, though head size is noticeably different - but that's here in a photo under scrutiny - on a tabletop in a game it would be a different case I guess.

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

People often make comparisons with very close up photos.
I find that when you play a wargame, you are looking from 100 to 200 cm away (3 to 6 feet), and at this distance, most things look OK.

[Munindk]

From what I've seen, GWs Middle-Earth range is very close to 28mm, whereas the rest of their ranges are 28mm heroic which is a nice way of saying "32mm with chubby limbs, big heads, hands and weapons".

Not that I dislike their other ranges mind you, but they dont mix well with historical miniatures.

[Ozreth]

Starting to settle on the idea of mixing GW models with others (Namely Oathmark). However, without having my hands on the rules yet, I'm curious where I'd be safest with proxies? I imagine "named" or "hero" type figures would be the most difficult, whereas a band of orcs or rangers would be easier...

[Argonor]

Unless you are firmly set on gaming with 28mm minis, GW actually made a Warmaster version of Battle of the Five Armies (10mm), for which it would be easy to adapt the Mark Copplestone range mentioned earlier.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/16538/battle-five-armies

Smaller scale, and rules much better suited for really large battles; in the SBG each warrior fights, in the Warmaster version units fight.

I have (to my knowledge) all the different Warmaster rulesets, and thus access to a large number of different unit profiles, and have been toying with the idea of a War of the Ring project, but that being said, I'm a sucker for the Perrys' movie adaption minis of which I have a HUGE collection, so it is probably never going to happen.. 

[mdauben]

1. It looks like the Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game is the most recent incarnation of this. Is this a remake of the old game that I remember from the early 2000's? Do people like it?

Its the most recent revision of the original LOTR Strategy Battle Game first published to coincide with the release of the Fellowship of the Ring movie.  Its a great rules set, and in many people's opinion one of the best GW has ever done. 

2. The thought of which models to start collecting to begin this is daunting! What recommendations do you all have for different aesthetics? I'm more interested in the books and a "traditional" look than the movies.

There are Mithril Miniatures in Ireland (IIRC) if you want the traditional look.  Only problem is they are a bit larger than 28mm, so its hard to mix them with anything else.  They are also sold mainly as collectibles, so there is not a lot of variety for figures you need in masses.  Before the release of the current GW LOTR line, a lot of people used historical figures for the human factions as there are a lot of "Dark Ages" wargaming miniatures available that are suitable .

3. If you wanted to play at a shop/officially, do the rules frown upon using unofficial miniatures the way Warhammer did?

IF you are talking about official GW shops, yeah they are going to require official GW figures (although why you would want to game in their shops is beyond me).

4. If you don't recommend the GW game, why not and what would you recommend instead?

I love the GW game, so I never looked any further.   

However, without having my hands on the rules yet, I'm curious where I'd be safest with proxies? I imagine "named" or "hero" type figures would be the most difficult, whereas a band of orcs or rangers would be easier...

Honestly, beyond the Fellowship and a handful of other movie characters, most people are not going to recognize the "official" named characters so you are safe using proxies.  Just make sure they are distinguishable from the rank-n-file warriors and you are good to go.

[Ozreth]

IF you are talking about official GW shops, yeah they are going to require official GW figures (although why you would want to game in their shops is beyond me).

What about official tournaments at local shops? Or does that not happen with this game?

Lots of good advice, thank you! Also, since you mentioned it, I was actually just in a Games Workshop store yesterday for the first time since the mid 2000's. What a miserable experience that was! It was just me and the employee in the shop, nobody else. Told him I was just there to have a look at some of the new Middle-Earth stuff. Explained to him that I'm not buying anything yet as I'm still doing research about what I want to paint up. My goal really was just to look around unbothered, in which case I did find two models that I may have actually bought, but this guy ruined it for me.

Every step I took in that store he tried to sell me something! And every question I asked turned into a selling opportunity. I've rarely felt so pressed in a retail space. It was absurd. I put down the two models ($25 each) I was considering picking up and got out as quickly as I could.