Tanks camo question

[Calimero]

This may very be an odd question, but, on the camo scheme of WWII tanks (or any other period for that matter) did the different colors blotches where placed on the "exact" same spot? In a three tones scheme, for example, on a panzer IV, did the right fender was always "yellow", the turret brown and the glaçis (the front of the tank) green… was it left to the crew to paint the camo or always done in industry…

For example, did all the Somua tanks from a same battlegroup had the exact same camo scheme arranged in the exact same way?

PS I hope my question is clear, English is not my first language

[Cubs]

My knowledge is not great, but I think some camo patterns were added in the factory, some in the field. Some camo required an exact duplicate of a set pattern, most was just a variation on a theme.

But I could be wrong of course.

[Fitz]

The Germans, apart from a brief period late in the war, supplied the paint pastes to the troops and left it to them to paint pretty much whatever pattern they thought best. They diluted the pastes with petrol and applied them however they could: tanks were issued with spray equipment that ran off the engine, but mops and brooms were used as well. There was extremely wide variation in pattern and tone.

The British had set patterns for each vehicle type, but they were laid out on the tanks in chalk by a sergeant at the REME workshops from a small plan on a sheet of paper and then painted by privates, so there was inevitably a certain degree of variation. However, the general placement and ratio of colours was, in theory, always the same.

Regarding the French, I don't know. However, they weren't around long enough to have to deviate from their standard peace-time painting practice.

[fred]

What Fitz said.

Regarding the French, they had some factory applied schemes. They also seemed to have a lot of unit level schemes, some of them very complex. French camo is some of the most interesting and striking, well worth some research as there are lots of photos and drawings out there (both the internet and books).

[Keith]

As Fitz mentions, late in the war German schemes became increasingly prescriptive e.g. a lot of the hard-edged schemes you see on an olive-green base. Hetzers and Panthers are good examples and you can typically determine which factory manufactured a vehicle based on the scheme applied - so MAN for example had their own application and stencils for the three colour or hinterhalt patterns. There are some great photos of late Hetzers which show absolutely identical schemes on multiple vehicles. Good examples for later Panther Ausf Gs can be seen in photos taken during the Bulge and a lot of research is available for those.

Obviously this was all a bit limited by resources late in the war and the system pretty much collapsed by 1945.

Base-coats remained pretty much consistent until very late, so grey then yellow then green depending on period - with limited use of red-oxide primer as the base coat right at the end. There are also some real oddities from the last few months as paint-stocks were dwinding and things became increaisngly ad-hoc.

[Etranger]

The French had set schemes, but they varied from factory to factory, and from batch to batch & used different patterns on different AFVs.

Tank battalions usually received their vehicles from the same batch of tanks, so all tanks within the battalion would theoretically have the same scheme, but obviously replacements and reinforcements may have  been received in a different scheme.  As a rule they weren't repainted in that situation (not that there was time in 1940). Lou P will probably have more detail.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Interesting question, and informative answers.

As an out of period aside, I remember reading that the British Berlin Infantry Brigade painted their Mondrian scheme identically on each vehicle type for security reasons.

[lou passejaire]

On the French Tanks camo, the ultimate work was produced by Pascal Danjou :
http://www.minitracks.fr/camouflage.htm
and the most specialized books :
http://www.minitracks.fr/trackstory.htm

and keep in mind that some AFV got camo from units "artists" ...

[Calimero]

Interesting question Thanks, and informative answers.

indeed! Thanks to everyone for the answers 

[has.been]

There were often 'in field' camouflage 'schemes'
Remember the idea id to make your tank harder to identify as a target.
During the winter of 1944 several British tanks (near an abandoned paper mill)
coated their tanks in news print. In desert areas, where water is in short supply,
tanks were often so dusty that colour schemes were difficult to spot.

[Fitz]

As an out of period aside, I remember reading that the British Berlin Infantry Brigade painted their Mondrian scheme identically on each vehicle type for security reasons.

That has been British doctrine since before WWII. The idea was that a single official camo scheme for a vehicle type, be it a tank, truck or plane, would both ensure that an effective pattern was applied, and would make it impossible for enemy observers to track individual vehicles (and therefore their units) by their paint-job.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

There were often 'in field' camouflage 'schemes'
Remember the idea id to make your tank harder to identify as a target.
During the winter of 1944 several British tanks (near an abandoned paper mill)
coated their tanks in news print. In desert areas, where water is in short supply,
tanks were often so dusty that colour schemes were difficult to spot.

Now I would love to see some tanks covered in newsprint.

Again out of period, I have been looking at German M113Gs in two Tankograd books (M113 part one and Bold Sparrow '87) and that shows some creative applications of mud for camo

[Ultravanillasmurf]

That has been British doctrine since before WWII. The idea was that a single official camo scheme for a vehicle type, be it a tank, truck or plane, would both ensure that an effective pattern was applied, and would make it impossible for enemy observers to track individual vehicles (and therefore their units) by their paint-job.

Hence the comment above about NCOs sketching the outlines in pencil so the other ranks can fill in the colours.

What was true in general would have been more so in the goldfish bowl that was Berlin.

[lou passejaire]

not sure about the NCO pencil ...

[SABOT]

I was Chieftain Crew in Berlin 83 to 85 D Squadron. Berlin was unique in that every tank had to be painted in exactly the same way. That was never true before or after. I served 78 to 2008. Roughly the same pattern was used but nothing like Berlin.