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Author Topic: Role of armour in skirmish games  (Read 3796 times)

Offline Gallahad

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Re: Role of armour in skirmish games
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2018, 09:41:15 PM »
I think the problem is that most games do a poor job modelling exertion in general. Even simple tasks become extremely difficult when winded. Armor should offer significant damage reduction benefits, but wind your models much faster. Even very short boughts of fighting are very winding.

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Role of armour in skirmish games
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2018, 10:17:41 AM »
I think the problem is that most games do a poor job modelling exertion in general. Even simple tasks become extremely difficult when winded. Armor should offer significant damage reduction benefits, but wind your models much faster. Even very short boughts of fighting are very winding.

Good point.

I mentioned above that The Black Hack RPG treats armour as an additional pool of hit points to burn through. The second edition of the game improves on this (for RPGs, at least) by giving each player a pool of dice to represent armour (one for a helmet, one for a shield and up to four for plate & chain, I think). The player can 'burn' a die to avoid a wound. But when all the dice are used up, the character is vulnerable. After a rest, the player rolls each 'burned' die to see whether they get it back. The number required rises according to the quality of the armour. So, a shield (1 point) will almost always be recoverable, while mail (3) will probably be in less good shape for the next fight.

It's not realistic, but it does serve to model exhaustion, because armoured fighters become progressively more vulnerable as battle progresses. So you get your tank-like knight battling through hordes of lighter foes until he's spent all his dice (and very possibly gets dragged down).

You could modify this system by making each die a 'save' - requiring it to be rolled and achieve a certain number for the hit to be nullified.

Offline Cubs

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Re: Role of armour in skirmish games
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2018, 11:04:02 AM »
It's a toughie. Does putting someone in armour make them better off? Well, training them for years to move and fight in heavy armour and then them having that armour will make them better off. Dumping a weight onto someone who lacks the training or experience of using that type of armour certainly won't. A mail shirt isn't going to fatigue someone of strong or medium build, but someone of light build might struggle.

It's one of those cans of worms that need to have a cut-off point of complexity and only you can say where you want the tinkering of rules to reflect realism to stop.

Personally, I've always felt that armour and shields are kind of underpowered in games. I like the idea that they simply reflect extra 'wounds', which would help to represent the idea that after a certain point, the shield is going to get hacked to pieces, the armour is going to get dented and broken, the fighter is going to get fatigued and is going to be less able to defend themselves (even a fully armoured knight will die if a lowly peasant sticks a dagger through the eye slot, but that's not likely to happen while he's still actively fighting). Do you then allow a measure of 'recovery', where someone away from the fighting can have their shield replaced, their armour repaired/replaced, where they can get their breath back? Or is this too cumbersome for a skirmish game?

I would also reduce movement for heavier armour and heavily penalise the 'wrong type' of armour being worn by the 'wrong class', or just not allow it at all, eg. a scout trying to wear a suit of plate.

But it's all a fudge and any extra rules will slow down the game a little bit. It's just the player's call as to where they draw the line.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 11:05:53 AM by Cubs »
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Offline Elk101

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Re: Role of armour in skirmish games
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2018, 11:04:48 AM »
Part of the problem is that the more attempt at 'simulation' that's built in, the more a game can slow down or put players off with its perceived complexity. I have a set of medieval skirmish rules from decades ago that is so 'gritty' in its attempt to simulate such elements that it's actually just not fun to play.