Crusades - Knight Hospitaller

[Tonhel]

Hello,

I've go a question. I am currently working on a variety of medieval warbands. The plan is to eventually play games with these warbands, but first I want to paint these warbands and each warband will be based on a dioramesque display board.

But I have a couple of questions.

As you can see in the picture, I've lots of WIPS. ;-), I am in doubt about my knight hospitaller. I've painted its surcoat red with with cross. I think these miniatures represent mid 13th century warriors.

For my Teutonic and Templar warband it's easy.

Teutonic: Knights, white surcoat and black cross - sergeants, dark grey with half black cross.
Templar: Knights, white surcoat and red cross - sergeant, black tunic with red cross.
Hospitaller: Should the knight below have black surcoat and white cross or like I painted it now? I know that late 13century they switched to red, but the miniature below when looking at its equipment should he be in red or black? And how did Hospitaller sergeants looked like?

Thank you.

[Legiocustodes]

Hello mate, sorry for a delayed response. Hopefully you’re still on here.

First up... beautiful painting, your models look amazing! I love some well painted Military Order knights!

Now in answer to your question... your Hospitallers fit the period right before the Holy Land fell and the Christians were pushed out of the Levant. So very late 13th/Early 14th century. Also the paint job suits the models chosen, as when they transitioned to red was also the period the Knights of St John adopted surcoats (like most other knights). Prior to this when they wore black they actually dressed in full monastic robes (Cappa) over their armour (see the Perry Range of Hospitallers).

As an aside your warnands would be perfect for Outremer: Faith and Blood published by Osprey Wargames... and of which I am proudly the author!

[Inkpaduta]

Look beautiful! The only comment I would make is on the Teutonic Knight.
They did not have the horned helmets. That, as far as I am aware, is a myth.
But, most makers do have them in the horned helmets.

[FierceKitty]

Your Knight of the Hospital looks pretty dam' convincing to me.

[MGH]

Inkpaduta -  Of course they had horned helmets, I know, I've seen the Nevsky movie!   

And I would agree with the others, those paint jobs look great and I'd keep that Hospitaller just like you got him!

[HappyChappy439]

Gotta agree with the rest of the thread, the painting here looks great!

Silly question but what manufacturer are the chap with the spear, and the crossbowmen at the back? (And what scale?)

[janner]

Pope Innocent IV authorised the red surcoat in 1248 and your figure matches the period after its adoption.

[henryv]

Must say very nice painting.

[Dalcor]

Gotta agree with the rest of the thread, the painting here looks great!

Silly question but what manufacturer are the chap with the spear, and the crossbowmen at the back? (And what scale?)

the Knights are VnV Miniatures the Man-At-Arms are probably Claymore Casting. Excelent models both

[Tonhel]

@Legiocustodes. Thank you for the info. I actually bought last week Outremer from Osprey online. You can't go wrong for 8,21 euro.  At first glance it looks very nice. Very thematic and immersive. I will certainly make a small warband for it. Hopefully V&V miniatures will release more miniatures for the Crusades range!

@HappyChappy439, The knights are from V&V and the Crossbowmen / Spearmen are form Claymore Castings Early HYW range. Both are 28mm, although  the V&V miniatures are much bigger than the Claymore Casting ones.

All the rest thank you for your answers. I am happy that red was the right call. .

Soon I will start plog here!

Another question? Templar shield. Black above white? It seems there are lots of possibilities. White with red cross, black above white, white above black... . All possibilities are fine I guess?

[Michi]

Another question? Templar shield. Black above white? It seems there are lots of possibilities. White with red cross, black above white, white above black... . All possibilities are fine I guess?

Yes, all is fine. Nobody can prove. The BEAUCEANT, their flag was black above white, therefore many believe the shields could have been painted in the same way.
I painted my knights with white shield and red crosses...

...and my sergeants with the black&white shields with red crosses.

[Legiocustodes]

Yes, all is fine. Nobody can prove. The BEAUCEANT, their flag was black above white, therefore many believe the shields could have been painted in the same way.
I painted my knights with white shield and red crosses...

...and my sergeants with the black&white shields with red crosses.

And may I say they look absolutely beautiful!

[Tonhel]

@Michi, Your templars look amazing!