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Author Topic: Issues with Black Tree Design - ongoing  (Read 40896 times)

Offline Harry Faversham

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Re: Blacktree Design...
« Reply #75 on: November 27, 2019, 09:41:22 PM »
Next question...
Wonder if they attend any UK shows, if they do, I'll be taking direct action!

:-X
"Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

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Offline Shahbahraz

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Re: Blacktree Design...
« Reply #76 on: November 27, 2019, 09:55:25 PM »
No, they don't attend shows. Probably just as well, as I would be volunteering to provide pitchforks and torches. Colonel Bill seems to carry quite a lot of their stuff second-hand, which I find interesting.

I just sent off my bi-monthly reminder to John Olsen that he still owes me two packs from my December 2018 order.

And checking, I exaggerated earlier..  it was only four months for the incorrect order to arrive.
Wargaming since the dark ages...

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Offline Sunjester

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Re: Blacktree Design...
« Reply #77 on: November 27, 2019, 11:41:04 PM »
I must have been really lucky, my only order from them (about 3-4 years ago) arrived within a couple of weeks and was complete, with no problems!
I really like their figures but have been out off from ordering more by all their bad press.

Online carlos marighela

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Re: Blacktree Design...
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2019, 11:45:32 PM »
IIRC one of our local retailers stopped stocking them some years back because of similar concerns. Their form for unreliability and lack of communication is legendary. Dunno if there is a difference between the US and UK arms. I think they are US owned these days.
Em dezembro de '81
Botou os ingleses na roda
3 a 0 no Liverpool
Ficou marcado na história
E no Rio não tem outro igual
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E agora seu povo
Pede o mundo de novo

Offline Atheling

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Re: Blacktree Design...
« Reply #79 on: November 28, 2019, 07:54:35 AM »
And checking, I exaggerated earlier..  it was only four months for the incorrect order to arrive.

Four months is still a silly amount of time to wait for an order  :-X

Online carlos marighela

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Re: Blacktree Design...
« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2019, 08:53:08 AM »
Four months is still a silly amount of time to wait for an order  :-X

Not if sent by a combination of canal barge and sailing ship.  :D

Offline Shahbahraz

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Re: Blacktree Design...
« Reply #81 on: November 28, 2019, 09:06:38 AM »
That wouldn't have been the worst thing if they could at least have sent the correct order.

Offline nicknorthstar

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Re: Issues with Black Tree Design - ongoing
« Reply #82 on: November 29, 2019, 05:58:22 PM »
Carlos, it's not US or UK owned. It's three guys, and they moved from Cornwall to Texas. When they moved they kept an 'office' open in the UK, but it's just an address, there's no UK employees of BlackT. There's no US ones either, just these three guys, the Edwards Bros and John Olsen. All the casting is done by contractors.

Offline Shahbahraz

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Re: Issues with Black Tree Design - ongoing
« Reply #83 on: November 29, 2019, 07:54:06 PM »
Carlos, it's not US or UK owned. It's three guys, and they moved from Cornwall to Texas. When they moved they kept an 'office' open in the UK, but it's just an address, there's no UK employees of BlackT. There's no US ones either, just these three guys, the Edwards Bros and John Olsen. All the casting is done by contractors.

Yep, from what i have observed, and been able to glean, essentially all their stuff is pretty much like a Kickstarter, so they run constant sales, and when they have a large enough volume of orders for a specific set of moulds - they order in the metal and outsource to casters, (and it's not clear to me even what involvement they have in fulfillment) then fulfill the orders, there is negligible to zero stock on hand, so no storage, no warehousing, no dead stock, just a set of moulds awaiting pre-orders. They also seem to wait to fulfill O/S orders until they have a critical mass to make the freight as cheap as possible.

So you may be lucky, so that you have ordered exactly the same large order as another 50 folk, so the money is there for them to get the casters working. Woe betide if you want one of something on another spin.

And my experience is they will just ship the order with some of the stuff you want, and hope you get bored asking for the correct stuff.

So that's my theory.

Offline Atheling

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Re: Issues with Black Tree Design - ongoing
« Reply #84 on: November 29, 2019, 09:11:40 PM »
Yep, from what i have observed, and been able to glean, essentially all their stuff is pretty much like a Kickstarter, so they run constant sales, and when they have a large enough volume of orders for a specific set of moulds - they order in the metal and outsource to casters, (and it's not clear to me even what involvement they have in fulfillment) then fulfill the orders, there is negligible to zero stock on hand, so no storage, no warehousing, no dead stock, just a set of moulds awaiting pre-orders. They also seem to wait to fulfill O/S orders until they have a critical mass to make the freight as cheap as possible.

So you may be lucky, so that you have ordered exactly the same large order as another 50 folk, so the money is there for them to get the casters working. Woe betide if you want one of something on another spin.

And my experience is they will just ship the order with some of the stuff you want, and hope you get bored asking for the correct stuff.

So that's my theory.

Man, this is even bleaker then I had imagined! :-[

Offline Shahbahraz

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Re: Issues with Black Tree Design - ongoing
« Reply #85 on: November 29, 2019, 09:45:46 PM »
It's just a theory - based on observation. I might be a thousand miles wide of the mark and they might just be lazy and incompetent  :)

But it's a shame as they have some really nice models.

Oh, and they also seem to flirt with the edges of Intellectual Property legislation, notably with the Doctor Who stuff, but a that's a separate issue entirely. 

Offline nicknorthstar

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Re: Issues with Black Tree Design - ongoing
« Reply #86 on: November 29, 2019, 10:05:10 PM »
I think you are close to the mark Shahbahraz. I don't know how they run the business these days, but I know all three personally and how they ran BlackT pre-skuttling off to Texas.

The Doctor Who thing, they had the license officially as Harlequin Miniatures. They bankrupted Harlequin after setting up Black Tree Design, a company that had 'bought all the current stock of Doctor Who miniatures'. So when Harlequin went down, owing the BBC thousands in unpaid royalties, Black Tree said the stock was bought legitimately and they could continue selling it.

20 freakin years later they are still selling it, and the Beeb can't get their hands round their necks 'cus they buggered off to Texas.

And as a witness to how much Doctor Who stock Black Tree bought from Harlequin:

Offline katie

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 303
Re: Issues with Black Tree Design - ongoing
« Reply #87 on: November 30, 2019, 12:10:33 AM »
I think they must have some stock of figures -- I've had figures off them which are clearly not recent casts. They look ANCIENT.

FWIW, I ordered a bunch of stuff on the 5th November and got the package on the 22nd. I think that's the best turn-round time I've ever had from them.

I'd have ordered some more while the going is good, but Ral Partha has a sale on...

Offline vodkafan

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Re: Issues with Black Tree Design - ongoing
« Reply #88 on: November 30, 2019, 12:28:17 AM »
Ordered something about a year ago and it came in reasonable time....guess I was lucky....I'm scared to order now.
I am going to build a wargames army, a big beautiful wargames army, and Mexico is going to pay for it.

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Offline aircav

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Re: Issues with Black Tree Design - ongoing
« Reply #89 on: November 30, 2019, 12:49:55 AM »
I’ve always been lucky & got everything within 2 to 4 weeks from them.
I’ve not ordered from them for a couple of years though.

It’s always made me laugh when they ‘find’ some Dr who stock in the warehouse! How big do they think we all think that bloody warehouse is?

Thinking about it, it must be f###### massive if they keep getting lost for months picking people’s orders  lol lol lol lol