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Author Topic: Late Bronze Age Collapse  (Read 2947 times)

Offline Easy E

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Late Bronze Age Collapse
« on: October 23, 2018, 11:37:14 PM »
So, I am no expert on this subject but I recently read 1177BCE, The Year Civilization Collapsed by Professor Erich Kline.  Fascinating reading. 

You can get the general idea of it here....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcu-ysocX4

.... so let's discuss.

Who and What are the Sea Peoples and are they still actually relevant to the Late Bronze Age Collapse?
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Online Ragnar

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2018, 02:07:46 AM »
Thanks for the link.

And following this thread.
Gods, monsters and men,
Will die together in the end.

Offline commissarmoody

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2018, 02:33:22 AM »
I will watch the video and check out the book.
"Peace" is that brief, glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.

- Anonymous

Offline LeadAsbestos

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2018, 09:50:55 AM »
Great book, and my very favorite period! I'm in the camp that says the Sea People are absolutely relevant to the collapse, as invaders forced to piracy due to economic collapse, crop failures, and geological/weather turmoil. More of a product of the collapse than its cause, but they certainly aided in the spread and final end for some of the areas they invaded.

Offline LeadAsbestos

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2018, 09:52:23 AM »
AND I have a gorgeous Sea People army from Cutting Edge to paint!  :)

Offline SteveBurt

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2018, 09:53:21 AM »
If you have not already read it, Robert Drews: The End of the Bronze Age. Changes in Warfare and the Catastrophe. 
Is well worth reading, even if some of what he says is contentious.

Offline Easy E

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 01:44:04 PM »
If you have not already read it, Robert Drews: The End of the Bronze Age. Changes in Warfare and the Catastrophe. 
Is well worth reading, even if some of what he says is contentious.

Thank you.  They site it in the 1177 BCE and spill some ink on his ideas and why they are a bit contentious.  I will try to track it down.

Offline swiftnick

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 08:18:57 PM »
Yes a fascinating period.

Offline MeridarchGekkota

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 08:37:59 PM »
I love bronze age collapse stuff.

Offline Cyrus1

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2018, 10:14:43 PM »
A good book on the Sea People is N. K.Sandars' The Sea Peoples: Warriors of the Ancient Mediterranean, out of print but worth tracking down on Abebooks.

Offline swiftnick

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2018, 12:35:52 AM »
Thanks to the joys of being on nightshift, have just watched the video. Very informative and a great chatty lecturing manner.
Yes agreed the sea peoples were a symptom off and a contributing factor to the collapse. Drought, famine and war leading to movement of population.

Offline draxx66

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2018, 10:47:38 AM »
Have and read the book and watched the video, the books a good read and the video is a good watch too.

 :)

Offline zippyfusenet

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2018, 04:18:26 AM »
Thanks for the link. That was an entertaining lecture, I'll look for Dr. Kline's book.

I'm a Late Bronze Age fan, have read Sanders and Drew and a lot else on the subject. I get accused of pedantry, but that's my kind of fun.

I have large 15mm armies for most of the LBA ANE empires. I've played a lot of DBA games with them but still haven't found a rule set that suits me for the bigger battles. I want to stage bigger battles: Technicolor specacles like Mighty Pharaoh hacking up the land of Kush, Achaeans and Wilusans battling at the gates of Troy, like in the Brad Pitt movie, the massed chariots charging at Kadesh...some day. I'm currently fiddling with some 28mm Nordic Bronze Age and mythic Achaean Amazon figures (Battle On Xena!), but don't know what rules I'll use for them...shmaybe revive the old Steve Jackson Melee rules?

.... so let's discuss.

Who and What are the Sea Peoples and are they still actually relevant to the Late Bronze Age Collapse?


I don't think about Sea Peoples under that Egyptian rubric. Today we can identify most of the nations that Ramses named and we know a lot about them. I have Achaean armies, Minoans, Peleset, Sherden, Canaanites, Shasu, Libyans and others. If I want to mass them into a motley horde and overrun Naharin or invade Egypt, I can do that...if I ever find a rule set that I like.

I also usually think about specific elements of the end of the LBA rather than a general Collapse. Dr. Kline argues and I agree that the big picture is too broad, complex and diverse for a simple explanation. The Collapse took hundreds of years to play out. It makes more sense to me to look at the Minoan decline, the Achaean collapse, the fall of Ugarit, and so on in the specific. We have a better chance of understanding these particular cases, and building up from them the bigger picture.
You'll shoot your eye out, kid!

Offline Cyrus the Great

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Re: Late Bronze Age Collapse
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2018, 06:08:16 AM »
This seems to be another hypothesis  for the collapse. A counter to the Luwian Civilization explanation. (?)