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Breton and Franks at Hastings

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CaptainBigglesmay:
Looking to pick the hive mind's ideas on what the Breton and Frankish wings looked like at Hastings for the Normans.


Bring me your king!

Is Frank just a technical term for non-Norman French troops armed and organized much the same as the Norman's or is there anything more to them?

Likewise Breton? Always viewed them as poorer equipped troops and perhaps given how that flank falls back during the battle perhaps there's something to that?

How would you use figures to represent these wings? Saxon figures looking less well armed with beards? Look for French troops of the period? There's a few mentions of Mercenaries as well, what form would these take? Even a few mentions of Viking's and Sicilian Normans too.

Thanks for any help.

Mr.J:

--- Quote from: CaptainBigglesmay on December 24, 2018, 06:56:26 PM ---Looking to pick the hive mind's ideas on what the Breton and Frankish wings looked like at Hastings for the Normans.


Bring me your king!

I’d argue not like that. Not sure there’s a huge amount of evidence for lamellar at Hastings. As far as I’m aware there would be very little difference between their appearance, arms or armour. Lots of wargamers distinguish between the Normans and their allies by giving them round shields although again I don’t think there’s much to suggest that this is accurate either.


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Metternich:
Bretons were from Brittany (and not William's subjects, unlike the Norman troops).  They were descended from Celts who had settled in that part of what is today France (Brittany - Britain) and so were not "Franks."  (Just because of their Celtic origins don't think of them using "Celtic" military equipment - that would be like picturing Normans as Vikings).  Their duke Conan fought a (losing) war against William 1064-1066 (After his surrender of the Chateau de Dinan in 1065, Conan fought on in 1066 in Anjou.  Conan died December 1066, supposedly from having put on "poisoned gloves;" William was alleged to have sent him the poisoned gift).
   The Norman-Breton war is illustrated in the Bayeux Tapestry, Scene 19, the Battle of Dinan, where Breton troops in a Motte fort are attacked by William's Normans.  The Bretons appear just about identical in appearance to the Normans (which may or may not be accurate - I tend to think most Miles in Northern France of the period would have had similar equipment).  At Hastings, the Bretons are the Norman-allied troops who started to flee when it was rumored that William had died (they may have been less wedded to William's cause than other contingents and he was not their feudal lord)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breton%E2%80%93Norman_War#/media/File:Bayeux_Tapestry_scene19_Dinan.jpg

huevans:
I tend to agree with the above post. Continental troops would have dressed similarly, as this was the "cutting edge" of military technology at the time. There is some suggestion that the Bretons were unarmoured light cavalry, but any reference to this was from some centuries beforehand.

The Normans thought the English amateurish because they fought in shieldwall and did not make extensive use of cavalry and archers.

Tym:
So could one assume that there would be no difference in appearance between the Norman's and Breton's.  Same type of equipment, No facial hair?  Their forces of the same composition. Heavy Cavalry, Heavy foot, crossbows

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