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Author Topic: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range  (Read 175832 times)

Offline Splod

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2520 on: October 22, 2020, 10:57:59 PM »
Surely the single most iconic and powerful image of villagers in the war is that of the running, screaming, naked girl burned by napalm. Whether it is suitable for a range of toys is a matter of debate.

This suggestion may provoke distaste, but frankly I think it should.

I had the same thought last night. I was hesitant to post it however due to the distaste associated with the suggestion. Maybe if it was done as a charity figure similar to the NHS nurse it could be somewhat more acceptable?

Offline commissarmoody

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2521 on: October 23, 2020, 12:08:08 AM »
I'd be careful about something like that. The AK paints mismanaged release of their crimes in minatures book release comes to mind.
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Offline carlos marighela

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2522 on: October 23, 2020, 02:16:13 AM »
You know I’m not sure commercialising or perhaps further commercialising that image, even in support of an appropriate charity would be a terribly good idea.

Yes, it is thought provoking and it’s certainly iconic but I very much doubt its need to be replicated in miniature and it would be repellant to see it appear in a game. In much the sane vein as the photo of Phan Thị Kim Phúc, I doubt there’s much demand for a vignette of Nguyễn Ngọc Loan executing a Viet Cong suspect on the street or William Calley murdering all those poor souls at My Lai.

I think most reasonably sentient members of the hobby understand that truly awful things, war crimes included, occurred during this war, just as they have in previous wars and wars since. It’s an odd little hobby that requires not a small amount of what amounts to cognitive dissonance to indulge in it. Personally, I don’t feel the need to miniaturise every aspect of a given conflict but that doesn’t make me blind to the horrors of said conflict.

As a curious aside, in the popular imagination, that photo of the young Kim Phuc is often ascribed to an American air attack. In actual fact, it was the result of a mistaken attack by the South Vietnamese Air Force, albeit carried out by US trained pilots, in US supplied aircraft using US supplied ordnance. Doesn’t make it any better but it does add to the complexity of the story.
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Offline carlos marighela

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2523 on: October 23, 2020, 02:23:26 AM »
I'd be careful about something like that. The AK paints mismanaged release of their crimes in minatures book release comes to mind.

Don’t worry, I stumbled across a German miniatures manufacturer who produces a 28mm figure of Fritz Haarman, a notorious paedophile and serial killer, who allegedly ate some of the body parts of some of his victims.

Hard to top in the truly execrable bad tastes stakes. I really have no fucking idea what would inspire or induce someone to commission or sculpt such a thing. I can only assume the owners of said company are just c***s.

Offline carlos marighela

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2524 on: October 23, 2020, 02:40:40 AM »
On the topic of unarmed civilians. Mix of urban and rural please. Mostly walking or casually posed but the odd one cowering and attempting to avoid what’s going on around them wouldn’t be bad. Some female figures in ao dais would be nice.

In Phuoc Tuy, the Australians encountered a lot of ‘wood cutters’ and charcoal burners who moonlighted as part of the VCI supply chain.

Some very lightly armed, pistol or carbines would be good to represent the VCI. Tax collectors, local political cadres, propaganda teams and the like. There’s an old Stuart Asquith wargaming scenario ‘The Tax Man Cometh’ that would make great game if appropriately updated.

Oh and a Lambro taxi/ moto- minibus with civilian passengers would be nice. Give Rich something to get his teeth stuck into. Even sans figures it would make for great set dressing for urban games.

Offline commissarmoody

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2525 on: October 23, 2020, 05:32:18 AM »
I had to look up who Fritz Haarman was, he sounds like a very unpleasant dude.  lol
But yeah, I personally will not buy a min of burnt children from Kim Phuc. Even if the money went to charity. It just feels greasy to me.  :?

Online Pijlie

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2526 on: October 23, 2020, 05:33:05 AM »
Surely the single most iconic and powerful image of villagers in the war is that of the running, screaming, naked girl burned by napalm. Whether it is suitable for a range of toys is a matter of debate.

Nope. Not even a matter of debate. We are discussing wargaming figures here, right? What could possibly motivate someone to use such an image in a wargame? Indeed the AK debacle should be warning enough.

And most likely (he thought only after responding  :? ) we should leave that at this.
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Offline tomrommel1

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2527 on: October 23, 2020, 06:33:42 AM »
I would advise against such a figure !!!! I wouldn't buy paint or display it.

Would second the question for Lambros, TukTuks etc !!
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Offline commissarmoody

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2528 on: October 23, 2020, 06:49:05 AM »
Tuktuks are a given. And Mopads, those are still pretty common over there.

Offline Paul @ Empress Miniatures

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2529 on: October 23, 2020, 06:58:34 AM »
Don't worry that figure will never be done by Empress Miniatures. I suppose the clue is in the name = Empress. They keep us men in check. lol

The image is very iconic but we just do not do the extreme style of figures as its just not us. We have been asked to create some really 'interesting' figures for our Ultra Moderns range such as beheadings but certain subjects cross the line, even if hey just creep across it. The simple question is does it add to a scenario and none of these extreme designs do.

We will be doing some casualty figure at some point as they are relevant to the conflict and scenarios and some of the vehicle crews were subtly designed to be able to fit this area.

Top marks to  Andrew_McGuire for starting an interesting debate though. These things should be discussed. ;)

Offline Paul @ Empress Miniatures

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2530 on: October 23, 2020, 07:00:09 AM »
Moving on and the suggestions. Yes all great and luckily all pretty much what I have designed so that's good.

Paul starts these in a couple of weeks so I will pop up pictures of the sculpts to let you see. ;)


Offline commissarmoody

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2531 on: October 23, 2020, 07:25:21 AM »
Moving on and the suggestions. Yes all great and luckily all pretty much what I have designed so that's good.

Paul starts these in a couple of weeks so I will pop up pictures of the sculpts to let you see. ;)
Great to hear!  :D

Offline Ash

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2532 on: October 23, 2020, 07:26:04 AM »
Talking about civilians; I recall some of the iconic combat photographers (real & film character) were probably going to put in an apperance at some stage.
Just wondering how far off that may be?

Offline Paul @ Empress Miniatures

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2533 on: October 23, 2020, 07:41:03 AM »
Unfortunately the extra arms that were skin grafted onto Mr Hicks did not take and so we will get things done as soon as we can  ;)

Offline commissarmoody

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Re: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range
« Reply #2534 on: October 23, 2020, 07:50:37 AM »
Unfortunately the extra arms that were skin grafted onto Mr Hicks did not take and so we will get things done as soon as we can  ;)
Curses! How about the cloning labs? Anything back from them yet?