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Author Topic: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons  (Read 1349 times)

Offline Bloggard

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Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« on: February 08, 2019, 11:52:51 AM »
The scale75 and Andrea paint sets were referenced in a recent Capt. Blood thread about army painter paints.

opinions were mixed to say the least, as per.

I like the approach of colour co-ordinated box sets, and dropper bottles.

So I've picked up two of the scale75 (green and leather), and an Andrea 'blues' set.

Painters par excellence Dags and OpponentTheory spoke well of the scale75s - although Dags wrote of 'getting the hang of it', and OT that the paints are rather translucent (lacking in pigmentation?).
Would be great if you could elaborate on your experience / techniques chaps.

I'm particularly intrigued by this business of storing the bottles upside down and just using the paint, not the carrier.
I notice a number of top painters mentioning this (and for matt varnishes etc as well - Dallimore's recipe seems particularly alchemical!) - but don't know what's involved - is the separated paint then thinned with something else, or used neat  or ... ?

But regardless - interested in hearing from anyone concerning these two ranges.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 12:34:18 PM by Bloggard »

Offline Dags

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2019, 01:14:19 PM »
OK, where to begin?  lol

Storing dropper bottles upside down.... after a couple of days or so (varies for paint, temperature et cetera) the pigment separates from the carrier. So just squeeze a small drop on to your palate.... no more shaking (which is a huge benefit when you paint a lot) The pigment will need more thinning than 'normal' but that isn't an issue for me.

Upsides.... The pigment goes further and, in my experience, tends to give a more matte finish

Downsides... you will need to keep a bit of wire handy as nozzles to tend to clog more often, you have to get used to throwing away 'half empty' bottles that just have carrier left in them and, most importantly you need a new storage system - I use 2 types; a carousel that I put on a cake stand (so it spins) for the most used tones and trays (available inexpensively from Warbases)

Getting the hang of Scale 75.....

1. The bottles are sealed; you'll need to pierce the top of the dropper or you'll end up getting very frustrated and/or paint everywhere. This didn't happen to me. Honest.

2. The 'chalkiness' - I've not really had an issue (except with Tesla Blue) but using Vallejo Glaze Medium to thin  seems to cure that.

3. Temperature; they don't work so well when it's cold
Colours in for cash!

Offline Bloggard

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2019, 01:26:00 PM »
cheers Dags - that's great info, thank you.

any views on the andrea stuff - I think I read Steve Dean praising the black set?

Offline Dags

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2019, 01:37:16 PM »
Not used them yet... keep meaning to try

Offline Mr Tough Guy

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2019, 01:46:01 PM »
Have you seen the new kickstarter from scale 75?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2025694581/scalecolor-artist-smooth-acrylic-paints/description

sounds like all the pros withouth the cons if it does what they say it does, high pigment, no seperation of medium.

tempted to give it a try

Offline Bloggard

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2019, 01:51:18 PM »
it was mentioned in the other thread, and concerns me in the sense that it does seem to imply there's something wrong with the current range - although the lack of separation wouldn't suit Dags, I take it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 02:44:46 PM by Bloggard »

Offline Mr Tough Guy

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2019, 02:04:14 PM »
my thought was that this range was geared to people like Dags, that prefer to seperate their paint and only use the high pigmented stuff, so they made a range that is just the high pigmented stuff without the medium

Offline Dags

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2019, 02:31:49 PM »
I am tempted by them but - and this could fill a completely separate ranty thread - I don't do Kickstarters.

Might try a set once they hit retail but I really need yet another system (and a completely different storage solution) like a hole in the head.. 

Offline Bloggard

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2019, 02:50:45 PM »
Dags - couple of questions re: your first answer:

what do you find unsatisfactory about using the current range of scale 75 'properly' mixed (presumably as it's meant to be used). Is it just that it's 'better' for you by separating out (i.e. no shaking, very matt etc), but that 'as is' is still ok?

also, storage - can you not just turn the bottles upside down in a normal vallejo size paint-stand? Sorry - probably being particularly dumb here.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 02:52:59 PM by Bloggard »

Offline Dags

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2019, 03:05:49 PM »

I've turned dropper bottles upside down virtually since I started using Vallejo what? 15 years ago. I paint a lot and life is too short to spend shaking bottles. It works for me....

As long as your trays have a smaller hole at the bottom - for the top to sit in - nothing

Offline Bloggard

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2019, 03:30:22 PM »

Offline opponenttheory

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2019, 03:57:54 AM »
I've been using the scale colour range as my main paints for nearly a couple of years now. The way I judge paints is based on how their studio painters use them as this gives a good indication of what techniques the paints are optimised for. In the case of scale 75 their top painter is talented Julio Cabos who has a seemingly simple style of painting that I find very appealing.

This video is a good example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kHUe63hSWI&t=146s

So we can guess that the scale colour paints are optimised for layering which does appear to be the case. The paints have less opacity than say vmc which minimizes the boundary between each layer. The matt finish gives a good grip for the application of several layers. Also, the paints are easy to apply without visible brushstrokes and give a smooth even coverage. I prefer to use them with little to no dilution but each to their own on that one.

That's not to say you can't use these paints with other techniques and they do work well through an airbrush, and as glazes and even with wet blending. But it's with layering these paints really excel.

There are some negatives in addition to the separation. The colours are lacking in intensity when dry compared to other paint ranges. This affects the reds, purples and oranges the most. I think this is due to a combination of the transparency and the matting effect. This can be mitigated somewhat using a preshaded or otherwise white undercoat. However, I find for certain colours I have to finish with glazes of army painter or p3 colours.

The transparency also makes these paints less useful for edge highlighting and for this i normally switch to vmc.

Overall, for my style of painting the scale colour paints work well. However, I'm not sure how well these work for say army painting.

The new paints are interesting and I think they could work well with the scale colour range. But I'm not sure I need to buy another set of paints.

Offline Bloggard

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2019, 10:57:51 AM »
brilliant, thanks for that OT - again, very useful info.

Dags achieves very vibrant results, but from what's been said, doesn't use S75 exclusively (I assume), and maybe not for those colours you mention ... ?

I've just received my 2 boxes this morning - the green and leather sets.
perhaps just using the pigment from an upturned bottle helps - I would hope so.

I really like the presentation (yes, I know...  ::) ), and if the paints match the box artwork, there are at least 3 good triad combinations (as I'm still intending to follow the 'foundry method' by and large).

Thing is, after G** knows how much experimentation (and expenditure!!) I've settled upon a brushed-on grey gesso undercoat (beautifully smooth and even), and this wont help in the vibrancy / pop stakes ...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 12:27:17 PM by Bloggard »

Offline Dags

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2019, 02:42:05 PM »
Just to muddy the waters further, I prime black and use S75 almost exclusively for the brighter colours - lots of layers though

Offline Bloggard

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Re: Scale 75 and Andrea paint sets - opinons
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2019, 01:39:06 PM »
blimey - you layer up on black. I've never understood how people get good results on black undercoats. I find grey bad enough (but can't get an opaque, even, undercoat with white gesso - grey's ok, black excellent ...  :'( ... funny old world).

think I might have to go back to spray white undercoats with the Scale and Andrea stuff - but I find it hard to get even, full coverage with sprays.
Brushing on grey gesso is great - it reduces beautifully to an even smooth coat (or looks like it does anyway, maybe I just can't see the faults clearly on grey plastic / metal figures  lol )