*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 29, 2024, 06:03:00 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1686611
  • Total Topics: 118113
  • Online Today: 756
  • Online Ever: 2235
  • (October 29, 2023, 12:32:45 AM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry  (Read 4197 times)

Offline Charlie_

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1514
Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« on: March 02, 2019, 06:03:53 PM »
So the Napoleonic era (and the horse and musket era as a whole) isn't one I'm particularly knowledgeable about.

But I do always enjoy looking at peoples wargames projects for any subject, so have picked up a basic understanding of the military workings of this era. I also am constantly barraged by new Napoleonic releases from the Perry Miniatures facebook page!

Anyway, something I've never quite understood are the different classifications of cavalry units.

So we have heavy cavalry, and light cavalry. Ok.

Looking at the Perry Miniatures range, they have a total of FOUR different plastic cavalry sets just for the French alone!
-Heavy cavalry (cuirassiers / carabiniers)
-Line dragoons
-Hussars
-Chasseurs a Cheval

So the last three are all types of light cavalry, right? How did they differ in terms of their equipment, role, and prestige?

As I understand it dragoons used to be 'mounted infantry' who dismounted to shoot, but am I right in saying by the Napoleonic era this wasn't really their role? And if so how did they differ from other light cavalry?

I understand Hussars are quite iconic and have cool uniforms - but were they actually any different to other light cavalry units on the battlefield?

And what on earth are Chasseurs a Cheval? Just 'boring' light cavalry?


And then... what about lancers? They were light cavalry too, right? Did the French use them, and should we be expecting another French cavalry plastic set from Perry Miniatures?

Did all these light cavalry units have the same scouting / skirmishing / raiding roles on campaign? What were their strengths and weaknesses comparatively on the battlefield?

Also, what's the difference between cuirassiers and carabiniers? What were heavy cavalry of other nations referred to as, and how did they differ?


And to extend it further.... What was the role of cavalry throughout the 18th century, and how did it differ to the Napoleonic era and the 19th century?

Offline AWu

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1348
    • War is the H-word
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2019, 11:01:19 PM »
Simplifying:
Cuirassier and Carabiniers were heavy cavalry - breakthrough cavalry.
Dragons were line cavalry
and last two were light cavalry

Heavy cavalry was used to breakthrough maneuvers and light as harassing pursuit troops not really suitable to frontal attacks.

Dragoons were used either as light cavalry or as heavy cavalry -- they could do both but lacked cuirasses (they were armed like heavy cavalry with straight cavalry swords) and could dismount and fight as infantry with carabins (but they  did it not so often apart from peninsular anti guerilla warfare)
and rode heavy rorses (this is main distinctive feature of heavy and light cavalry - horse size)

Lancers are late addition and served as line cavalry - so a little like dragoons but with lance instead of carabins (they lacked heavy cavalry straight sword but lance served similar function in attack). There weren't numerous and were introduced later in the wars but lances were used earlier by Polish, Austrian and Coassack units.

As to Hussars and Chasseurs they wara basically the same - but hussars were more fancy dressed and could have greater elan in theory. But functionally you shouldn't see difference on the table. Bonaparte bodyguards were Chasseurs and he often  wore Chasseur uniform.
There was only 7 Hussars regiments in the french army and 30 Chasseur.


Generally in the battle heavy cavalry would fight in dedicated divisions.
Dragoons and light cavalry could be spread in each division.

Online Arthur

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2185
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2019, 12:46:30 AM »
There was only 7 Hussars regiments in the french army

Actually, there were twelve hussar regiments until 1812 with an additional three raised in 1813 : the 13th and 14th were short lived units which were essentially wiped out during the German campaign of 1813, their remnants being converged into a new and reorganised 14th in 1814. The third one was the Jérôme Napoléon hussars which were originally raised as a Westfalian unit (though the recruits were all native Frenchmen) before being taken into French service on January 1st 1814 and and renumbered the 13 hussars after what was left of the original 13th were absorbed into the 14th as stated above.

There were also 31 chasseurs à cheval regiments, not 30 : the 31st was raised in 1811 and originally served in Spain before sending its 4th and 5th squadrons to Germany in 1813 and its first three to Italy. The 'German' squadrons wore the regulation 1812 Bardin uniform while the ones serving in Italy were dressed as Polish ulhans and armed with lances.

I agree that dragoons were the Jacks of all trades in the French army : their main battlefield use was as substitute heavy cavalry, though they could also scout or provide escorts for convoys and baggage trains. As you say, they also proved very efficient contra-guerrilla fighters in Spain, where they gained a fierce reputation. Foot dragoons regiments did briefly exist in 1806-1807 due to a shortage of suitable mounts but the experience prove disastrous and the men were put back on horses as soon as the Prussian campaign ended.   

 

Offline vtsaogames

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1512
    • Corlears Hook Fencibles
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2019, 03:02:55 AM »
Heavy cavalry ideally big men on big horses, main purpose the charge.

Light cavalry, scouting, raiding, pursuit, covering retreats, charging in a pinch, doing lots of work before any battle is fought.

Dragoons, jack of all trades, master of none. In the British army they were heavy cavalry.
And the glorious general led the advance
With a glorious swish of his sword and his lance
And a glorious clank of his tin-plated pants. - Dr. Seuss


My blog: http://corlearshookfencibles.blogspot.com/

Offline janner

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2877
  • Laughing Cavalier
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2019, 11:09:12 AM »
Some very useful responses here :)

As can be seen, there is plenty of national variation. Russian hussars, for example, received lances for their front rank riders c.1812, but remained light cavalry.

Light cavalry was much rarer in western armies in the eighteenth century with the majority of cavalry being either horse (heavies) or dragoons. As the ninetenth century progressed, with the odd exception, western cavalry became increasingly generic.

Offline Charlie_

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1514
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2019, 12:10:36 PM »
Great responses, thanks guys.

So did the British not have 'heavy cavalry'? Were dragoons the heaviest they had?

I was aware that heavy cavalry used straight swords and light cavalry used sabres - hadn't noticed that dragoons had the straight swords too.
But I just noticed the Perry British dragoons have sabres, and are called 'light dragoons'. So... there were 'line' and 'light' dragoons? The Perry plastic Brit dragoons are the lighter sort, and they don't do a plastic set yet for the heaviest British cav, which would be 'line dragoons'? Man it does get confusing.

Did all cavalry have firearms as well as swords, and if so how often did they actually use them?

Were carabiniers just cursassiers with firearms? Did they function differently tactically?

Light cavalry was much rarer in western armies in the eighteenth century with the majority of cavalry being either horse (heavies) or dragoons. As the ninetenth century progressed, with the odd exception, western cavalry became increasingly generic.

Did they become more generic leaning towards heavy or light roles? Or just settled into a role between the two?

Online Arthur

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2185
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2019, 02:54:24 PM »
Here are a couple of introductory books to help you deal with the conusion :

https://ospreypublishing.com/napoleonic-heavy-cavalry-dragoon-tactics

https://ospreypublishing.com/napoleonic-light-cavalry-tactics

Not the be-all and end-all of research on Napoleonic warfare but very serviceable primers all the same.

Offline huevans

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 755
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2019, 03:26:45 PM »
Great responses, thanks guys.

So did the British not have 'heavy cavalry'? Were dragoons the heaviest they had?

I was aware that heavy cavalry used straight swords and light cavalry used sabres - hadn't noticed that dragoons had the straight swords too.
But I just noticed the Perry British dragoons have sabres, and are called 'light dragoons'. So... there were 'line' and 'light' dragoons? The Perry plastic Brit dragoons are the lighter sort, and they don't do a plastic set yet for the heaviest British cav, which would be 'line dragoons'? Man it does get confusing.

Did all cavalry have firearms as well as swords, and if so how often did they actually use them?

Were carabiniers just cursassiers with firearms? Did they function differently tactically?

Did they become more generic leaning towards heavy or light roles? Or just settled into a role between the two?

Britain had no heavy cavalry. Dragoons were their heaviest. However, all British cavalry was mounted on larger horses and could charge on equal and better terms any French cavalry, except cuirassiers.

Dragoon straight swords were much different to cuirassier straight swords. Dragoon swords were shorter and broader and could be used for slashing as well as stabbing. Heavy cav swords were like long pointy needles and could not be used for slashing.

All cavalry had firearms, except lancers. Except when the firearms weren't issued. Which happened a lot with heavy cavalry.

Light dragoons = light cavalry. It's just that the Brits called everything a dragoon.

Carabiniers = cuirassiers, but had white uniforms.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 03:28:56 PM by huevans »

Offline janner

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2877
  • Laughing Cavalier
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2019, 06:34:08 PM »
Just to pick up on some errors in the last post, the Household cavalry were the UK’s heavy horse.

Lancers did have firearms, generally pistols, but lance-armed russian hussars, for example also had carbines, I understand.

Moving on, dragoon guards were former horse regiments rebranded to save money (dragoons were paid less), but by this era were indistinguishable from regiments labelled dragoons in UK

Light dragoons were light cavalry, but generally better mounted than their French counterparts. They proved perfectly capable of roughing up cuirassiers at Waterloo.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 06:36:01 PM by janner »

Offline Cubs

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4914
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2019, 07:13:46 PM »
Great responses, thanks guys.

So did the British not have 'heavy cavalry'? Were dragoons the heaviest they had?


All regiments labelled Dragoons or Dragoon Guards, as well as the Lifeguards and Royal Horse Guards were British heavy cavalry (sometimes the Dragoons are described as medium, but their use was the same). As stated, they were big men on big horses with heavy swords, and at the charge would usually form close together in a compact block for greater impact. Britain didn't send any heavy cavalry to the Peninsular campaign, so this might be where the confusion arose.

All regiments labelled Light Dragoons or Hussars were British light cavalry. They were smaller men on smaller more nimble horses. Again, as stated they were arguably the hardest working units on campaign, being used for foraging, scouting, sending messages, guarding supply columns, etc.. In battle they formed in more open order and would be expected to deal with the enemy cavalry and basically be a threat on the flanks with their superior maneuverability.

I think all British cavalry for this period had carbines, although their use would be more common in skirmishes than large battles. Light cavalry could be expected to be broken in smaller operational units for detachment and might be called upon to dismount and defend a position or skirmish to defend themselves. In battle they would usually stay mounted. Fleeing enemy after a lost battle would be extremely vulnerable to cavalry of both types and many commanders kept a strong cavalry reserve to either slaughter a routing enemy, or to guard against the enemy's cavalry doing just that in the event of a defeat. 

But all the above is probably a 'textbook' example of use. In practice, the roles of heavy and light cavalry were probably closer to each other as the necessities of campaigning demanded. If the enemy made a mistake and opened up an opportunity, they would both be in there to exploit it, as Janner illustrates with British Light Dragoons vs French Cuirassiers.

It's very difficult to pin down exactly who did what and what units were around, as there was a lot of change over the Napoleonic period, with regiments being raised and amalgamated and disbanded. Different nations sometimes used the same labels to describe slightly different types of cavalry, which was also confusing. Uniforms and equipment also changed quite a lot, so a cavalryman at Waterloo would look very different from one in the Egypt or Peninsular campaigns. For the most part, collectors tend to pick a campaign (or even a single battle) and collect/paint their dudes accordingly, rather than having a mismatch of soldiers from different periods (although, small irregularities are also accepted as inevitable sometimes, due to restrictions in ranges available). 

« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 07:15:31 PM by Cubs »
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

Paul Cubbin Miniature Painter

Offline AWu

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1348
    • War is the H-word
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2019, 07:43:42 PM »

Dragoon straight swords were much different to cuirassier straight swords. Dragoon swords were shorter and broader and could be used for slashing as well as stabbing. Heavy cav swords were like long pointy needles and could not be used for slashing.


Well
They had slight difference but they were similar. And Year IV swords were distributed to both Cuirassier and dragoon regiments (just with different scabbard)
But this is going in much more detail than thread author want to know at this moment in his Napoleonic endeavors :)
The function was very similar and you could both thrust and cut with both and they visually differed from light cavalry curved sabre suitable  for cuts.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 12:00:58 AM by AWu »

Offline Captain Blood

  • Global Moderator
  • Elder God
  • Posts: 19308
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2019, 08:46:03 PM »
This is why I don’t do Napoleonics...

:D

lol

Offline Derek H

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 164
  • Derek H
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2019, 09:03:11 PM »
All regiments labelled Dragoons or Dragoon Guards, as well as the Lifeguards and Royal Horse Guards were British heavy cavalry (sometimes the Dragoons are described as medium, but their use was the same). As stated, they were big men on big horses with heavy swords, and at the charge would usually form close together in a compact block for greater impact. Britain didn't send any heavy cavalry to the Peninsular campaign, so this might be where the confusion arose.

The Household Cavalry and several regiments of both Dragoons and Dragoon Guards fought in the Peninsular War. 

Here's a picture of the Life Guards standard.




Offline Cubs

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4914
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2019, 09:20:14 PM »
The Household Cavalry and several regiments of both Dragoons and Dragoon Guards fought in the Peninsular War. 

Huh … well colour me stupid, you're right! I wonder where I got that idea from then.

Online Arthur

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2185
Re: Educate me on Napoleonic cavalry
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2019, 12:36:01 AM »
All cavalry had firearms, except lancers. Except when the firearms weren't issued.

French chevau-légers lanciers regiments actually had firearms : each trooper was issued with an An IX carbine and one An XIII pistol. 

Carabiniers = cuirassiers, but had white uniforms.

The two French carabiniers regiments were the former Carabiniers du Roi and only started wearing metal armour in 1810 : Bonaparte ordered them to wear the brass-covered steel cuirass and combed helmet in December 1809, which is also when the white coat was introduced. Prior to that date, they had worn a dark blue habit à la française faced red and a black bearskin.