Basic Roman questions

[tuco74]

So, I'm looking to jump into a new period/project later in the year. That gives me chance to finish my current projects and do some reading and research.
Ancients are appealing as a) I'm bored of painting rifles and b) it's a (very long and diverse) period that I don't know about in much detail.

In the spirit of b) I was hoping someone could answer the following for me:

How much variety is it possible to get into a Roman army? The thought of repeatedly painting exclusively flesh/red/bronze/steel is off-putting. Since I'm a (bad) painter more than a gamer I'd like to do something with some variety and always lean towards slightly more obscure units or themes.

How much research is needed for shield designs? Were they generic or specific to units/campaigns? Were they consistent within units?

Would each unit use the same weapon at the same time i.e. all attacking with sword or spear at once?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[SteveBurt]

Which era of Romans are you talking about? Pyrrhus? 1st Punic War? 2nd Punic War? Caesar? Augustus? Aurelian? Contsantine? Aetius? Justinian?

The answers change completely depending on which era from 300BC to 500AD you are interested in.

[tuco74]

Well...I don't know haha. Where should I be looking for a diverse and interesting force to paint?

I'd say I'm probably more interested in Imperial rather than Republican Rome and the thought of painting a force for somewhere far-flung or at least unusual on the tabletop appeals.

[joekano]

If you're looking for a diverse army to paint, then you''re probably better of with Repulican Romans.  For allies, they had other Italian states, Numidians, Creatans, and Balearic slingers

[aphillathehun]

I would either go early, or late.  The early would be the republican romans (before the reforms of Marius at least, better still maybe during the time of the 1st Punic War or the wars against the other Italian states).  Late Romans start to be a polyglot force - a mix of regulars and foederate troops (hairy barbarians).  Early armies are really infantry armies and late armies are tending toward mounted forces.

[AWu]

Roman Army is a trap.. Its many totally different armies through the ages.

Best check with potential enemies what era would be best suited to their enemies of Rome.
It would be silly to paint  Patrician Roman Army of Aetius when all potential opponents wait for Punic Wars Camillian Romans.

And bear in mind that Rome is worst army for what you have written above really. Its one and only uniform army that existed through most of its timeline
Maybe it would be better to look for army of one of its enemies :>

[tuco74]

Roman Army is a trap.. Its many totally different armies through the ages.

Best check with potential enemies what era would be best suited to their enemies of Rome.
It would be silly to paint  Patrician Roman Army of Aetius when all potential opponents wait for Punic Wars Camillian Romans.

And bear in mind that Rome is worst army for what you have written above really. Its one and only uniform army that existed through most of its timeline
Maybe it would be better to look for army of one of its enemies :>

Yeah, I understand that saying 'Roman army' covers a lot of ground in terms of time and geography.

In terms of people to play against, that's not such an issue as I'm a painter rather than player at the moment. Although I paint with a view to having armies ready when I get chance to play again regularly.

Funnily enough, I started off looking at ranges of Roman 'enemies' to begin with. I am actually leaning towards the end of the occupation of Britain and doing a Roman and Anglo-Saxon warband, the Footsore minis for both are really nice.

[AWu]

Good choice.
Late Roman and post Roman armies are best fit to what interest you painting wise.

There is scope for everything there really.
I am building my Late Roman Warband lately (mainly due to books Ive read lately and availability of impulse buy cheap GB plastics)
And play with both uniformed units and un-uniformed.

[tuco74]

Yes, that sounds good. I have a Viking SAGA warband and have wanted to build another for some time. I may well start with early Saxons and the equivalent Romans while I do some more research.

[aphillathehun]

Yes, that sounds good. I have a Viking SAGA warband and have wanted to build another for some time. I may well start with early Saxons and the equivalent Romans while I do some more research.

That sounds like a great plan!

[williamb]

The Late Imperial/Early Byzantine period would have a wide variety of troop types in it.  Cataphracts, horse archers both armored and light, Legions, Auxilia, barbarian units like Huns, Goths, Vandals, etc.   For shield patterns the Notitia Dignitatum has images of many different patterns used by specific units.  There are free  online versions of this.  Two books from Wargames Research Group would be a good starting point for images of the various troop types and opponents faced.   Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome and Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars.

[tuco74]

williamb, that's really helpful thank you.

[SteveBurt]

Late Romans are good for diversity, and nice shield patterns which are actually documented, and of course if you already play Saga, The Last Romans already appear as a faction in the Viking Age book.

[williamb]

williamb, that's really helpful thank you.

You are welcome.   I noticed in your original post about painting.   I am not the best either when it involves painting shields.   What I do is use a graphics program (I use Paintshop pro).   I use the crop feature (dashed box in the left side tool bar) to select a shield pattern, copy it under edit, and save as a new image.   The under image I resize it.   For 28mm figures the shield would be about 15mm wide by 20mm tall.  Unlock the aspect ratio and if making it smaller I increase the dots per inch.   So if I reduce the width from 30mm to 15mm I would double the number of dots.  I then copy an paste the resized image into a word document as many times as needed for the number of figures in the unit, print the word document on heavy cardstock, glue the cardstock to brown craft paper, and cut the shields out.   I have done this for 28mm and 6mm figures.   https://18clovehamhock.blogspot.com/2009/10/projects-completed.html   
https://18clovehamhock.blogspot.com/2017/04/ranks-of-bronze.html

[Wiegraf]

For Variation, what has been suggested is true.  It all depends on what time you want to do. 
I don't collect anything beyond Early Imperial Rome, so my two cents here end with the Early Imperials...

My opinion here is all based off of Wargaming miniatures out there, as well as a bit of history.

The very early Roman Kingdoms and the very Roman Republic are very limited to what troops they'd have. They would have had at first Etruscan / Hoplite style warfare, and fight in Phalanx formations with few horsemen.  Following that, they ended up fighting Samnites and Italian hill tribes, found the Phalanx worked horribly against the Italian's irregular fighting style, and then developed the maniple system that is used in the Republic until Marian comes along.

For the Pre-Republic and Earliest republcian warfare, you do not get a lot of options for fielding troop types, I'd reckon. Rome was a regional power in Italia so anything nearby would make sense for fielding.

When you start getting into the Punic Wars, the Republican Roman army and kingdom grows - it begins to flourish into the Empire. They expand into Sicily, southern Italy, Cisalpine Gaul, illyria, Iberia, Attack Carthage.. their hand of influence grows and with it, tons of mercenary forces appear. You can field celts, numidians, Iberians, Illyrians, greeks etc. etc.

 The Late Republic is also great.  You have legionnaires and native troops as mentioned in the punic wars.. and legionnaires are not only from  Rome, but you get Spanish Legionnaires, Germans work for Caesar, and allied gallic tribes.  The Republicans in this era take Gaul, eventually all of Iberia, lots of eastern territory, and other areas.  You do, sadly, lose the Hastati, Principes, and Trairii looks as everything becomes standardised.. arguably as well you don't have Samnites or Italian allied with specific looks running around anymore, but it is still a period of variety.

When the Romans go full on Imperial for wargaming, I find that variety vanishes in most armies.  You get legionnaires in their regular lorica segmentata look - auxiliary are all decked out in chain, and everything looks rather standard. The Imperial legions are powerful and are a devastating, near unstopable  force  in this period and they're certainly one the most popular for wargaming. Of course, if you want to have native numidians, germans, or something else accompanying the army, that is fine, too!


For shield designs..I am not sure . I often see people change it up,  it could very from unit to unit. Cohort to cohort.. I personally give my Republican Roman Hastati and Principes Red and Yellow shields, with boar / wolf decals from VVV , but my Triarii each have their own individual shield.  I typically see Imperial's all sporting the same legionary shield.

Weapons for the Late Republic and Imperial legions are very standardised. Pila, gladius, and it is often the auxiliary troops that are given spears for miniatures.   But the earlier times, had Triarii with long spears, Pila for hastati and principes, and even earlier, short spears or the hoplite style..

So there is a lot to consider! Do you want to keep it conforming as one major army? I say go Imperials. But if you want to do a lot of Variations and have tons of different troop types running around, I'd say the Punic War - pre-marian Republicans. If you want a bit of both, Caesar's legions with some nice Germans alongside would make for a great force as well!