*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 29, 2024, 08:49:45 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1686628
  • Total Topics: 118115
  • Online Today: 777
  • Online Ever: 2235
  • (October 29, 2023, 12:32:45 AM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?  (Read 7302 times)

Offline Griefbringer

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 273
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2019, 07:58:59 AM »
Any scale, though that comment was partially tongue in cheek. Though actually with the smallest scales (e.g. 1/300) some of the smaller features of the vehicles can be tricky to do to scale when using pewter as material, as this can result in gun barrels etc. that are so thin that they get easily bent.

Back to the topic of Perry WotR range, I pulled a bunch of assembled plastics from this range out and measured them. The ones standing approximately straight measured around 27-29 mm from the soles to the eyes, so around 28 mm on average.

The model that Captain Blood chose for comparison is probably from the taller end of the spectrum on what you can assemble from that kit, and the choice and pose of the head amplify the effect. Though for comparison with the WWII fellow, it is also worth checking the height at the crotch and shoulder.

Offline vodkafan

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3510
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2019, 01:45:27 AM »
Just to throw something else in the mix....I have started liking 1/60 scale vehicles to go with my "28mm" miniature figures. The Perry plastic WW2 and the Westwind Berlin or Bust (early sculpts) in particular are only 28mm to top of head so are not really 1/56 in my opinion.
I know some people are going to say " The Perry figures are designed to fit into 1/56 vehicles"..to that I say, of course something that is smaller than 1/56 is going to fit into a 1/56 vehicle...it doesn't mean much.
Wargames companies have their own standards of "scale". I have plastic sprues of 1/48 weapons (from Tamiya, Bandai) which are consistent with each other but SMALLER than the same weapons on a 1/56 warlord sprue! It's insane!
I have a Tamiya 1/48 German motorcycle combination (which I presume is correctly scaled) that I can't even fit 28mm figures into. I bought a 28mm BTD motorcycle combination and it turned out to be bigger than the 1/48 version.
I am going to build a wargames army, a big beautiful wargames army, and Mexico is going to pay for it.

2019 Painting Challenge :
figures bought: 500+
figures painted: 57
9 vehicles painted
4 terrain pieces scratchbuilt

Offline Arrigo

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1074
  • errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum est
    • Forward HQ my new blog where you can laugh at my crappy photos!
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2019, 12:43:26 PM »
basically one thing we all agree...  :o 28mm is not a scale (surprise!)  and that is making us crazy when trying to fit it in a scale (especially because once it was called 25, then 28, then...). On the other hand being 28mm not a scale ends up with everyone doing what they want and what they think look good. Some people say do not mix, other say mix as long it looks good to you (me latter). I had a 1/60 Sherman from Westwind and it got gifted so small it was.

On the same level you can easily argues that even miniatures in 28mm from different manufacturers can be an issue (BTD for example are huge compared to other.

From the player perspective because often we do not need hordes on the table in WW2 28mm it is less of a problem than let's say in 15mm or smaller scale.

Until now this worked quite well, but I can imagine it could be an headache for manufacturers.

Welcome to the real world of miniature wargaming...  :-*   o_o
"Put Grant straight in"

for pretty tanks and troops: http://forwardhq.blogspot.com

Offline FramFramson

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10681
  • But maybe everything that dies, someday comes back
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2019, 06:08:08 AM »
1/56 or 1/60 is perfect for civilian cars IMO, but I can definitely see it looking wrong with tanks.


I joined my gun with pirate swords, and sailed the seas of cyberspace.

Online tin shed gamer

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • *
  • Posts: 3333
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2019, 10:49:25 AM »
It's intresting how people want uniformity in the one thing in history isn't uniform.'People'
These figures are all in 28mm and all made to the height of the person they represent.
I always makes me smile this whole grumble on scale creap. The reality is less insidious than an industry conspiracy.
We've grown up and gamed our way through the 35 year evolution of an industry and have a physical records of its organic growth in the form of our lead piles.
I wonder if people who collect 'toy soldiers' grumble about the evolution of Britain's toy soldiers since they first began casting toy soldiers.
The figures supplied with scale model kits are more often than not. A different scale to the vehicle.It's a design aesthetic nothing more.
When its applied to Wargaming vehicles its going to be down to what the individual finds  aesthetically pleasing . Thats why companies diffeer so much . It's a healthy enough way of doing business for many companies to prosper . If there wasn't any varriation in figure and scaling . We'd soon go looking for it. And be grumbling about the lack of varriation in styling .
Personally I quite like bumbling around shows looking for figures and vehicles that suit my styling preferences.
I know others find it a frustrating minefield. But its definitely more interesting.
Mark.

Offline moiterei_1984

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 874
    • My hobby blog
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2019, 11:59:26 AM »
Well, I don‘t mind the chaps in my ‚armies‘ being of different sizes... what I really mind though is when identical equipment is all over the lace scale wise. Even within one range it seems consistency isn’t really a priority at times. I do have Artizan Germans carrying your ubiquitous ‚wargames standard tree trunk‘ as a stand in for a Kar98k while some are sporting little wee rifles which are tiny even compared to WG‘s very first plastic weapons.

Offline Griefbringer

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 273
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2019, 12:22:50 PM »
Regarding the variation in human height, my understanding is that it generally resembles normal distribution.

So in a real life platoon with an average height of 175 cm, a lot of men would be in the 170-180 cm range, fewer in the 165-170 cm and 180-185 cm ranges, and a couple in the 160-165 cm and 185-190 cm ranges.

However, it would be unlikely to encounter a real life platoon with an average height of 175 cm where 50 % of the men would be 190 cm tall and another 50 % would be 160 cm tall.

Online tin shed gamer

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • *
  • Posts: 3333
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2019, 09:05:59 PM »
It's was a little devious of me, As I expected someone to answer with the average height argument. I'm afraid its a myth .It's a tool used to explain away 28mm as a scale.If it were set as a scale then your ancients would be considerably smaller.
28mm is the organic development of over thirty years of production .Figures are 28mm foot to eye or toe to head . As a uniformity of styling ,height and bulk . Simply because uniformity is visually pleasing. If it wasn't so then we all wouldn't bemoan the lack of uniformity .
As for units of. Been split into equal hieght groups.Life has a funny way of biting statistics in the arse.
I'm 5'11"(& 1/2 been the butt of many a joke because of it.)I was the second shortest in our platoon . Andy Parks was 5'7".
In 3rd Platoon Paul Troop was the tallest at 5'10". And nearly 2" taller than anyone else in the munchkins.
On regimental Parades guess where the RSM had them march.
It's also down to regional varriations too you get a lot short arses from the mining towns, and the fishing towns. A lot of lanky sods from rural areas,and so on.
The reason I used those figures is simply to show two things .That When you use 28mm as an average height (1940's being approximately 5'8" or in this case 5'6" for an earlier and now older generation.)All sorts of variation bounces in to a range . 28mm isn't an average height its a unified height as an aesthetic. I chose to reverse that asethetic to emphasize the ecliptic nature of the subject(home guard).
The aesthetic is unified by insuring that all the equipment and kit is standardized across the entire range so the shortest figure has the same visual reference points as the tallest.
Which avoids the issues mention on non uniformity of items. These are fixed points of 'scale' eg a. 303 is the same length in the hands of a child as it is in the hands of a fully grown man.It doesn't change in length as the person changes in height only its ergonomic relationship to the person.
You've every right to bemoan any lack of continuity with in a range.
In short 28mm is truly an aesthetic . Nothing more .
It's easy to say but not so easy to truly get your head around.
It's purely down to taste . If you feel a particular scale of vehicle suits your notion of the relationship between man and machine go for it. No one can tell you your wrong. Some choose the larger scales as they perceive the vehicle as being the dominant visual cue and others choose the smaller scales as they perceive the human form as the dominant visual cue. Neither is right and neither is wrong. Personally I'm more visually cued by the webbing and the weapons as they are what I know and what I grew up with. So accurate weapon play and slighty oversized kit is something that draws my eye to a figure. Plus being infantry tanks a bloody big and driven by ignorant arseholes who do consider looking where they're going but don't care coz 65tons is an argument winner.Where as you are scrimmed and squishy biological fog.



Offline Ultravanillasmurf

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 9305
    • Ultravanillasmurf
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2019, 06:46:19 AM »
Extremely good points, as a buyer you choose the figures that meet your requirements.

I did get the impression that the original post was an inquiry prior to entering into the market. Have we answered that question?

Online tin shed gamer

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • *
  • Posts: 3333
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2019, 08:11:15 AM »
More or less .All be it indirectly.
1/48 is no more dominant than 1/56. I work for companies who each prefer a different interpretation of 28mm.Which is challenging in its self.There's a market share for each scale as there's advocates for gaming in each.
The only time you'll risk falling flat is if you specialise in obscure or prototype vehicles.As these tend to be one trick ponies often with a negative return on the time and effort invested in its production.
Bread and butter models first novelties last.


Offline Rich H

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • *
  • Posts: 3232
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2019, 08:13:28 AM »
Unless you are me and do it for funsies most of the time :)
Hence the stupid Sno-Cat... ;D

Online tin shed gamer

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • *
  • Posts: 3333
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2019, 08:16:58 AM »
Thats the thread I was going to read next ;)

Offline Ultravanillasmurf

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 9305
    • Ultravanillasmurf
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2019, 08:14:30 PM »
Unless you are me and do it for funsies most of the time :)
Hence the stupid Sno-Cat... ;D
Or a Ratte.

Or this' http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=108673.0

Offline Rich H

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • *
  • Posts: 3232
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2019, 08:55:29 PM »
At least the Reichstag was finished... :P  (Sold now too!)

The Ratte... well it's been so long the masking tape that was holding it together has failed so it's now a flat pack Ratte...with no instructions.

Online tin shed gamer

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • *
  • Posts: 3333
Re: Is “25mm” WWII mostly played in 1/48 now?
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2019, 11:32:24 PM »
 lol thats because Rich uses witchcraft and thats what allows him to get such projects past his Mrs. If I tried it Mrs TSG would be serving time.(I cant even get away with saying I do for a living. It'd start with If you think your making toy soldier all day and ....)