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Author Topic: Rules needed for Eastern Front.  (Read 4781 times)

Offline racm32

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    • Wyndehurst Productions
Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2019, 02:49:23 PM »
I have some good books on the Eastern front which is why I know the unit quality and composition was so different and important to the outcome of the war. I think I can work within the parameters of Bolt Action with a bit of modification for the theater.

Offline SteveBurt

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Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2019, 11:13:32 AM »
Differing small unit organisations and tactics is something which Mud & Blood explores very well. I don;t know if Bolt Action does the same.

Offline racm32

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Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2019, 07:42:07 PM »
I have a copy of through the mud and blood, I'll pick up the supplement for Russian and Austrian forces and see how it looks.

Offline Metternich

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Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2019, 06:52:40 PM »
Certainly interested in your views after you've played a few games of it.

Offline huevans

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 755
Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2019, 01:02:51 AM »
Thanks. Early war is pretty straightforward. TO&Es become a bit more tricky as you get into late 1915 and onwards. Details are more difficult to compile around the composition of squad/sections and associated support weapons. The pick-and-mix approach of Bolt Action will suit the later period because there was considerable variability on both sides. I'm happy to post some details if that would help.

Robert

I'm always interested in anything you contribute to any WW1 discussion, Monk - if only to increase my knowledge of the period!

Offline monk2002uk

  • Mad Scientist
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Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2019, 06:50:49 AM »
Differing small unit organisations and tactics is something which Mud & Blood explores very well. I don;t know if Bolt Action does the same.
I respectfully disagree. M&B does promote the concept of national differences in small unit tactics for sure but these should be considered as specific to the ruleset and not historically correct. Both rules promote differences in small unit organisations.

Robert

Offline monk2002uk

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 729
Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2019, 07:13:01 AM »
Here is some information specific to Bolt Action small unit organisation for the Russians and Austro-Hungarians:

For the Russians in the early war, you should use the following options from the standard rules but without submachine guns:
  • Officer
    Artillery Forward Observer (but not Air Force Forward Observer)
    Regular Infantry Squad
    Veteran Infantry Squad
    Inexperienced Infantry Squad
    Machine Gun Team
    Sniper Team
    Light Howitzer

The same list can serve for the Austro-Hungarians in the early war.

Russian cavalry will be as per the Cavalry Squad in the Armies of the Soviet Union supplement:
  • No submachine guns
    An LMG option from the start of the war (Madsen) would be historically correct, though not one per squad. This will unbalance otherwise equal size forces in the early war when the Austro-Hungarian cavalry did not have LMGs at all.

Both sets of early war cavalry can have a medium machine gun team and a light field artillery gun team as options.

Anti-tank grenades and submachine guns, as per the WW2 rules, are not available to any Russian infantry.

You can let Russian infantry have a Madsen LMG/s if you permit the Austro-Hungarians to take the Schwarzlose with the bipod ('back pack') mount. It wouldn't have been an LMG per squad, more like one or two per company. Alternatively, Russians can use captured Schwarzlose though I am not aware of any 28mm figures that are released with this option ;-).

Late war Austro-Hungarians get flame-thrower, light mortar, and/or 37mm light infantry gun teams.

If you add stormtrooper options for late war Austro-Hungarians then you can do so for Russians too. Specialist teams were trained for the Brusilov offensives, leading the way in many attacks.

Both sides operated armoured cars so you could consider this option. Tanks did not feature.

Robert

Offline monk2002uk

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Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2019, 07:20:16 AM »
GAJO Games published WW1 adaptations, which are a good starting point for Bolt Action v2 (http://gajominis.com/rules/rulesgajo.html). I totally endorse the point that 'the [Bolt Action] rules as published do not need significant changes to reflect World War One actions'. Here are some additional comments and suggestions, FWIIW:

1. Air Support was divided into two broad categories:

a. Artillery fire control, typically controlled by aerial observers in aircraft and/or captive balloons. Normally this type of fire was directed at enemy forces identified off-table. Firing at enemy in close combat with friendly forces, which is what Bolt Action represents, was not encouraged because of the very high risk of blue-on-blue. That said, Bolt Action is about introducing a taste of some of these elements of battle. The variant, as described, is ok from this perspective bearing in mind that the Air Force Forward Observer would actually have been in the air in reality.

b. Strafing and low level bombing runs from ground attack aircraft. Fighters and dedicated fighter-bombers began operating this way in 1916.

2. The Chauchat LMG has been given a 'jam' Special Rule. All LMGs were prone to this in muddy conditions. There is a famous video of a German MG08/15 being set up and fired in a training exercise. It jams multiple times in the minute or so of the clip. The French army conducted a thorough review of all weapons systems, including the Chauchat, when Pétain took over in 1917. There were lots of positive reports about the Chauchat. The issue of maintaining cleanliness during battle was emphasised but this was not unique to the Chauchat. Furthermore, the Chauchat was highly prized by Stosstruppen, who would receive financial and other rewards for capturing these weapons for re-use in their units. I recommend not using this Special Rule.

3. 'Infiltration Tactics' are frequently referred to in relation to German Sturmtruppen. The term is used to imply that units could slip between frontline defences. The attacks on British Fifth Army during Operation Michael in March 1918 are often cited as an example. The 'infiltration' achieved by German attackers was not down to something inherent in the units themselves. It represented the very dispersed nature of the British defences. In other words, you would model this by spreading out the defender rather than apply a Special Rule to the attacker. Operation Mars was a complete failure because 'Infiltration Tactics' could not work against normal defences.

4. Mk V* (often referred to as Mark Five Star). Apply the same stats as the Mk V but add the 'transporter' Special Rule. It transported MMG teams. The A7V transported a wider range of assault troops.

5. Captured Weapons - also allow the Germans to swap for the Chauchat LMG. The Madsen LMG can also be used.

6. Stosstruppen, Elite Stormtrooper, and Assault Squads should not have different Special Rules from their British, Dominion, and French counterparts. German histories refer to these counterparts as 'Sturmtruppen', reflecting the similar nature of assault tactics across all major nations on the Western Front.

7. Granatwerfer should have 3 crew, mirroring the requirements for the 37mm Infantry Gun Team.

8. Americans and French should have the Schneider as an option: 1 x MMG on each side; 1 x light howitzer - otherwise same as Char St Chamond Tank. Note that French tank forces used pioneers to turn difficult terrain into 'normal' terrain.

9. All tanks can disembark MMG teams when bogged.

10. The French should have the equivalent of 'elite' assault troops, reflecting the dedicated assault teams and/or the use of colonial troops such as the Sengalese for this capability.

11. Bergmann SMGs were very rare. I would leave them out or make them much more expensive to include in a squad.

12. Flammenwerfer are better modelled as separate teams IMHO. The French and Americans should have an option to include dedicated flamethrower teams as well (French flamethrower teams were attached to the Americans, eg the Big Red One's attack on Cantigny).

Robert

Offline racm32

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Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2019, 02:46:02 PM »
Thank you so much for the loads of information. Think I'll start with Bolt Action first since I know the rules.

Offline Metternich

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Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2019, 10:01:08 PM »
I would say that for fighting on the Eastern Front, German use of captured Madsens would be far more likely than captured Chauchats.

Offline armchairgeneral

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Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2019, 10:34:27 PM »
Thanks for all the information Robert. Really useful.

Offline monk2002uk

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 729
Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2019, 09:14:08 PM »
I would say that for fighting on the Eastern Front, German use of captured Madsens would be far more likely than captured Chauchats.
Yes, large numbers of Madsens were captured or intercepted en route from Denmark to Russia. There were enough to arm two infantry battalions as Madsen-only fire teams, the so-called Musketen Bataillonen. These battalions were based on the Western Front. They served with distinction during the Battle of the Somme, after which the Madsens were replaced with Lewis guns. I haven't seen examples of Germans using Madsens on the Eastern Front but it is quite possible.

Chauchats were used by the Romanians after the French re-trained and re-armed the Romanian army, following the fall of Bucharest. I haven't seen examples of Germans or Austro-Hungarians using Chauchats on the Eastern Front.

Robert

Offline grant

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Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2019, 04:16:10 AM »
It’s a beautiful thing, the destruction of words - Orwell, 1984

Offline grant

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Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2019, 04:16:45 AM »
The stats are not going to be any different from western forces buddy.

What?  o_o

Offline Driscoles

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Re: Rules needed for Eastern Front.
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2019, 07:14:04 AM »
No particular game  bashing please.
If you fancy other games name them.
Thank you.
, ,