Flames of War vs. Bolt Action

[Grimmnar]

Heard an interesting comment this past weekend at Cold Wars, that people are leaving FoW to get into Bolt Action.
Can anyone, who has verification of information, comment on such a thing?
True or False?
Just kind of curious. With all the comments i have read since v4 was released of FoW that it isn't as accepted as previous editions and hearing good things of the 2nd edition of BA i guess i could see it. I know i haven't played any of v4 to date and stopped playing FoW since i think 2nd edition, maybe some 3rd edition.
But BA being in a larger scale and with less minis i dont have an answer.

So what say you, thoughts?

Grimm

[von Lucky]

Just a general observation from me:
I have definitely seen some of it here in Melbourne/Australia. Flames of War has died off since v4 (for the Australians - the numbers at Cancon in 2017 - 2019 are a good indication of this) and some of these players have migrated to Bolt Action.

I would say though in my immediate circles these ex-FoW have general migrated to other games that were on the sidelines (too many to list), while a lot of 40k players have also turned to BA to get into "historical" wargaming. FoW is what got me away from GW ~15 years ago, so I am a little sad to see it die, but then I've only played a handful of FoW games in the last 5 years.

[Volleyfire!]

We used to play FoW a lot, but with about 20+ different eras we play and several different rule sets of choice it has been played infrequently during the past four years. Currently, we are playing BA a lot, mainly because I've been slaving away painting like crazy and all of our gang, bar one (but he doesn't like any rules where he doesn't automatically win, no matter what dice he throws, anyway), like the rules and enjoy the game.

FoW in its current form is better we think than previously, certainly easier to play, but we want to see cards for mid war released before we dive back into it again. Re-releasing everything in plastic seems like an extravagant retooling exercise by Battlefront, they'll need to shift tons of product to make it worthwhile, and you wonder just who is moving into WW2 FoW in sufficient numbers to buy all this stuff to make their investment pay off?

We may get back into FoW once Oil Wars comes out and I've painted yet more IDF and Arab forces to go with it, but like I say we game so many periods some stuff only comes out the cupboard once or twice a year.

[jaytee]

No one on earth can verify your question tbh.

And you'll get as many opinions as players.

[Sparrow]

One could always play neither and instead actually try and wargame World War Two? Chain of Command are quite good

[Grimmnar]

No one on earth can verify your question tbh.

And you'll get as many opinions as players.

We will have to agree to disagree.
Already got two responses above.
And as an example, you have a person that plays with a group of friends or at a local game store, or both.
Said person can relate that they play a tourney a month or plau FoW once a week like clockwork.
Said person can say though for the last year in their experience they have stopped playing FoW, for whatever reason, and now play BA.

I know that nonone person can answer for the world. But several people can tell me their experiences they have encountered as of recent.
Stores don't do FoW tourneys because the draw isn't there any more.
Stores can say sales in FoW is down but their has been a surgence in BA sales.

Sparrow, and there are plenty enough games. He'll instill love Angrieff.
I just want to know for FoW and BA.
I am asking fflornthese two for a specific reason.

Grimm

[Truscott Trotter]

Looking at the world wide comp figures over the last 5 years should give you an indication - although the FOW sales team will deny this and say lots more people are playing at home - by themselves - in the dark 

Biggest comp FoW - used to be 70-80 here in Oz now 6-12
In UK was 40-50 - now 5-10

Bolt Action picked up a few but I suspect they are losing ground now as people realise its limits as a game

As someone mentioned Chain of Command is the way to go for platoon level......but then I am biased 

[von Lucky]

I don't think anyone can deny that for many, many, many wargamers Games Workshop games is what got us into this hobby. Tapping into that market is going generate sales which can allow you to make miniatures. So, I don't hate FoW or BA - we all want different things from this hobby. Or are constrained by time, money or space.

[Volleyfire!]

I think the Chain of Command v BA argument is a bit like Brexit, or Marmite whichever analogy you prefer. I have both sets of rules, but having played BA at Hammerhead I was drawn to that set. I haven't actually played CoC so I can't compare the two, but BA got to me first so that's what I've stuck with. Maybe one day we'll try CoC and see what everyone thinks.

[Shahbahraz]

I think the Chain of Command v BA argument is a bit like Brexit, or Marmite whichever analogy you prefer. I have both sets of rules, but having played BA at Hammerhead I was drawn to that set. I haven't actually played CoC so I can't compare the two, but BA got to me first so that's what I've stuck with. Maybe one day we'll try CoC and see what everyone thinks.

Have a go at both. For me, BA is a fun pick up game, where you can get lots of toys on the table - the rules are quick and easy (mostly!) and you can get stuck in, and make lots of 'bang bang' noises. Great fun. Chain of Command very much more restrictive in what you can a) put on the table, and b) what they can do there, but really really, engaging, especially if you are prepared to invest the time in playing the campaigns. It's very much 'Commando' comics, versus Beevor for me. In a sense, it's width versus depth.

And rereading that, it makes it sound like CoC is a cerebral exercise and very dry.. absolutely not, it's the most engaging and intense, and FUN, wargame ruleset I have ever played in 40+ years. (Which to be fair, have included some absolute stinkers, like Newbury 'Fast Play' Napoleonic.)   

[V]

Don't know anyone who plays WW2 using FoW or Bolt Action.

So not sure how that effects your straw poll. 

Then again I don't know anyone who plays Chain of Command either..

I suspect my group is just closed minded and wedded to a set already...

[Volleyfire!]

intense,

You nearly had me there, until that word popped up  We have a rather intense gamer who sometimes loses it if he doesn't get the dice rolls he requires, which is a lot of the time. I don't think he could stand an intense set of rules as well.

[Truscott Trotter]

You nearly had me there, until that word popped up  We have a rather intense gamer who sometimes loses it if he doesn't get the dice rolls he requires, which is a lot of the time. I don't think he could stand an intense set of rules as well.

Then keep him away from Chain of Command - he will NEVER get the rolls he wants 

[rha.celt]

I can only speak for my small group. We used to play allot of FOW. Including several campaigns.  Since V4 the dozen or so players is down to just a couple of die hards.  Most of us now play BA at least on occasion. To be fair some of us had started on BA before V4 of FOW came out but V4 killed it for several more.

[grant]

FoW is a parking lot game - truly offensive to anyone who’s worn the black beret; Bolt Action 2nd Edition cleaned up some silliness but is still a game ...