King Arthur and his knights coat of arms question.

[FreakyFenton]

Hey there fellow LAF'ers.

I have a question to the hivemind, namely a good source for the coat of arms of the Knights of the Round Table and Arthur, as well as a few adversaries for a skirmish. The miniatures I will be using will most likely be some converted Fireforge Games Footknights and Templars as well as some Men at Arms. I might expand on the project later with mystical elements such as giants and perhaps a few ghostly adversaries.

Thus far I have procured:
 
A few Osprey Myths and Legends books. I jsut like the art of Alan Lathwell, and the brief oversight they give. ( One of my favourites being the Battle of Camlann scene or this one https://i.pinimg.com/474x/23/0a/4d/230a4de607febc98e947e1fb4152b782--roi-arthur-king-arthur.jpg). Mind you, I saw the excellent list of follow up literature included in those books, however I doubt wildly buying all of them won't help me. 

And "The Arthurian Legends - An Illustrated Anthology" by Richard Barber.

I have heard of the Armangnac D'Armoral, however, my research was either too superficial to bear results or I didn't look for the right thing.

A quick google image search put me onto the site "theheraldrysociety.com", but I'm just curious if there's other sources or some hat prove particularly useful apart from these.

[mithril]

it is a tricky issue, since there are basically two versions of Arthur and his knights. there is the quasi-historical version, that is the real person or persons from which the myths were derived, which appear to have existed somewhere in the 5th or 6th century, at a time when not only was heraldry effectively non-existent in the sense we understand it today, but very few records remain of the time that would let us reverse engineer plausible heraldic guidelines for what they did have. and then there is the mythical Arthur found in so much historical fiction, both period and modern, which were generally given the arms, equipment, and heraldry based off what was the current fashion of the time a given work was written, resulting in a lot of conflicting material.

given your stated goal of using crusade period figures to represent Arthur and his knights, you are solidly in the realm of the mythical version, so i would say that you can probably use the heraldry found in the following links and most people wouldn't bat an eye over it.
https://www.theheraldrysociety.com/articles/some-arthurian-coats-of-arms/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attributed_arms#Arthurian_heraldry
https://www.heraldica.org/topics/arthur.htm
https://www.jstor.org/stable/27870241?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
http://landoflegendslv.com/01library/05research/01con/03KA/KingArthur/kingarthur.html



 (the quasi-historical Arthur would be better represented by Late Roman period figures, as that would be the equipment available to them.)

[FreakyFenton]

Thank you, mithril!

Yes, I'm going with the mythical version you mentioned for now. I don't know why, i just reckon it looks cool for what I have in mind. An aesthetic choice if you will. 

However I saw Coyote's thread on a quasi-historical Mordred, or Medraut, which tempt me, but in the end I figured I go with what I sort of know, rather than jumping into something I don't know at all. But having seen this (https://www.akg-images.com/Docs/AKG/Media/TR5/1/4/d/2/AKG3028893.jpg), I'm somewhat tempted to do both.

Either way, thanks a lot for the links! very appreciated!

[mithril]

i find both appear interesting. the Mythical version has the magic and monsters angle going for it and is well suited to scenario play, while the quasi-historical one lends itself better to large skirmish and mass battle stuff, as the Ex-Roman Britons fight the Angles, Saxons, Picts (and of course the other ex-roman briton kingdoms) to preserve their own holdings.

[FreakyFenton]

They both definitely are.

I've run into a bit of a conundrum though. Wonder if every knight of the round table had a sword, or if some fought with mace or axe. I might just build some with spears, axes and maces, to differentiate a bit.

[mithril]

the answer is "all of the above"
regardless of time period, the sword was a Knight's sidearm. they would mainly fight with lances (if mounted), axe, or mace, but the sword is what they'd fall back on if their lance broke or they lost their axe/mace. in fact it would not be uncommon for a well equipped knight to have lance, mace, and sword.
a combat lance was basically a long spear, and usually was used once on a charge, then abandoned (because once it hit the enemy, holding onto it was a good way to be knocked off your own horse), with the knight grabbing their axe/mace/sword (since at that point they'll be more or less inside the enemy formation they just broke up with the lance charge)

a spear for a non-mounted knight would be a slight oddity, but not completely unheard of. a knight would grab whatever weapon is available during a melee. especially since in the later crusade period it was not uncommon for some of the better off foot soldiers to wear knight level armor as a form of heavy infantry. (thus giving you a knight's look but a non-knights weapon)

[FreakyFenton]

Ahh, good to hear that. At least I can get away with my decision. 

That said, I knocked up a few figures already, minus their shields for ease of painting. Pictures will follow soon!

[bluewillow]

I have photos from Chateau de Combourg, the chateau grand Salon has friezes painted onto the walls of the King Aurthur and the Grail tail. René de Chateaubriand the writer who was fasinated with the grail tale and its link with Brittany, Maine and Anjou.

cheers
Matt

[pws]

I did mine fallowing this guide:https://www.theheraldrysociety.com/articles/some-arthurian-coats-of-arms

Winter lords
http://pippoweb.blogspot.com/2017/12/cavalieri-della-tavola-rotonda-saga.html

[FreakyFenton]

Oh lovely work pws! And fantastic to contribute to this thread! 

Thanks a lot, gents.

[FreakyFenton]

So here is my progress thus far. The first to third picture are supposed to be the Irish champion Marhault with his poisoned axe and Tristan, the shields will be added later, for ease of painting. Tristan will also receive ailettes from plasticard.

The fourth and fifth picture are Gaheris/Beaumains, brother of Gawain, with a spear. The second figure is an extra, perhaps a henchman of Marhault's.

The sixth picture is Yvain, sans shield again, Who might or might not receive ailettes.

Picture seven shows two unnamed knights. No idea who they'll be for now.

[FreakyFenton]

And the rest. Namely in the first picture, Lancelot with the two handed sword and his enemy Meleagant. I might have to convert a Guinevere and Lady of the Lake, remind me here. Though I have a few ideas already. Including greenstuff. The axe helmet is based on artwork by Alan Lathwell. Lancelot will also receive ailettes.

The second and third picture shows the pre-greenstuff Mordred or Merdraut. I will probably shave down the glove of his free hand and armour him up some more. Not sure though. An idea would always be to, create a second wave of models with the same theme with the technique of Captain Blood, by using Perry miniatures to up armour the knights a bit more.

And as per usual, all of them without their shield. Lancelot's will most likely be slung across his back though. 

[pallard]

If I may join in, the question of "accurate" shield blasons for the Round Table knights is a PHD level subject. We are obviously talking about medieval versions of the myth. But one has to make a choice: either you are dealing with historical knights re-enacting ideal arthurian heroic figures, or you are plainly searching for actual mythical knights (Sir... you name them in english, Messire... in french). In the first case you should look after manuscript illustrations associated with courtly life and turnament paraphernalia such as in Burgundy or Anjou (Les Riches Heures etc.). In the second case have a close look to the manuscript illustrations of the great arthurian cycles: in french the Vulgate- Lancelot en prose and the Tristan en prose (mostly XIVth century) and in English the great rewriting of the whole myth by Malory (XVth century). There could also be interesting elements in late italian documents.
Philippe

[janner]

There’s always the heraldry adopted by Monty Python 

[FreakyFenton]

@janner, I was tempted to make a Lancelot a la Cleese!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJoM7V54T-c

@pallard, thank you for the advice! But I do think the fictitious Arthur will be the go to option for me, I might have to see which sources work for my project and such. And I might make an attempt at the quasi historical one later.

Thank you both for the input though! Appreciated!