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Author Topic: Not-So Merry England: UD 6/2 Hedge Gates  (Read 84106 times)

Offline Silent Invader

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 8/4: the pond is saved!
« Reply #210 on: April 08, 2020, 12:40:31 PM »
You need a couple of ducks   :D

I do ... thinking about it I have a whole farms worth of 1/56 plastic animals - sheep, pigs, ducks, chickens, though probably just the one ox and no cows as I believe they were quite the rarity in N Essex at the time.
My LAF Gallery is HERE
Minis (foot & mounted) finished in 2024 = 0
(2023 = 151; 2022 = 204; 2021 = 123; 2020 = ???)

Offline FifteensAway

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 8/4: the pond is saved!
« Reply #211 on: April 08, 2020, 01:14:45 PM »
@ Malamute: "In a bucket or a communal toilet. Most houses did not have outside conveniences in the mid C17th in England.
Check your facts next time :)"  I did actually, googled it up, and it indicated indoor toilets didn't arrive in England until the 19th century - but it didn't state there were outhouses, either.  Just seemed a logical assumption.  I know about Garderobes but I doubt very many folk in England in the 17th century lived in castles. Also about champers pots and such - though I thought more confined to the more well to do homes.  I also know cities had some variation of sewers - and that passersby could have the misfortune of those slop buckets contents landing on their head (yuck) when tossed out from above into the open channels.  Rather surprising the rural areas didn't have outhouses.  Suggests a remarkably unsanitary society - perhaps one cause of so much disease.  And then there is the question - where were those slop buckets emptied?  So, I'm still not drinking out of that pond - and that well is suspect, too.  My research did lead to learning more about two story (and even three) outhouses.  There will be quite a few such 'conveniences' in my Old West towns, outhouses I mean, not necessarily multi-story ones - though maybe one or two.  :D

And now back to Silent Invader's lovely little hamlet.

Offline Silent Invader

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 8/4: the pond is saved!
« Reply #212 on: April 08, 2020, 01:48:20 PM »
Fifteens
@ Malamute: "In a bucket or a communal toilet. Most houses did not have outside conveniences in the mid C17th in England.
Check your facts next time :)"  I did actually, googled it up, and it indicated indoor toilets didn't arrive in England until the 19th century - but it didn't state there were outhouses, either.  Just seemed a logical assumption.  I know about Garderobes but I doubt very many folk in England in the 17th century lived in castles. Also about champers pots and such - though I thought more confined to the more well to do homes.  I also know cities had some variation of sewers - and that passersby could have the misfortune of those slop buckets contents landing on their head (yuck) when tossed out from above into the open channels.  Rather surprising the rural areas didn't have outhouses.  Suggests a remarkably unsanitary society - perhaps one cause of so much disease.  And then there is the question - where were those slop buckets emptied?  So, I'm still not drinking out of that pond - and that well is suspect, too.  My research did lead to learning more about two story (and even three) outhouses.  There will be quite a few such 'conveniences' in my Old West towns, outhouses I mean, not necessarily multi-story ones - though maybe one or two.  :D

And now back to Silent Invader's lovely little hamlet.

Please don’t sap my pleasure in this way.

As you’ve said, you made an assumption about outhouses. My reading of the matter is that at the time in question a small, rural settlement such as this might well have had a communal outhouse, which is distinct from an outhouse at the rear of each property. And yes buckets, or a piss in the street, if you couldn’t be bothered to walk to the outhouse (or privy as it would more properly be known). Being a short stretch down the hill, such a communal privy (like the barn) isn’t part of the village base but an adjunct to it.

Whether or not you want to drink from the water is up to you. It might not be what is intended but your tone comes across as condescending and abrasive. I really don’t care if what I do appeals to others or not, as I make it for my own pleasure. What irritates me though, and as I’ve said above saps my pleasure, is when rancour is unnecessarily introduced.

To go back to your first post, which I suspect set the tone for what followed:

Quote
Those houses have some right fancy privvies out back, they do.   lol

I do hope there will be some livestock roaming about.

On the trees, you can always go back later and add in some dead leaves within the drip lines if you don't like the grass effect.

You make 3 points, all of which are ostensibly negative. Constructive criticism is more than welcome, and if you look back over the thread you’ll see plenty of occasions where people have suggested that I do things differently. I even redesigned the entire village footprint to take into account the advice of those who knew better than me. The issue with your post is that it seemingly mocks while criticising, which changes the atmosphere in the thread.

Perhaps you could think about what you wrote and how it might be interpreted by all readers?

You could have asked if the buildings were privies, rather than laughing at them as you assumed they were. You could have asked if I intended to add livestock. You could have asked what my thinking was when I constructed the tree base as I did, without suggesting that I didn’t like what I’d done.

Rather than biting back at Malamute, who I suspect was irritated by your seeming condescension, perhaps you could consider the way you commented.

Thank you .
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 01:49:52 PM by Silent Invader »

Offline jon_1066

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Re: Not-So Merrye EnglandIe: UD 8/4: the pond is saved!
« Reply #213 on: April 09, 2020, 01:49:02 PM »
It is looking rather splendid and certainly screams rural England.  Reminds me of Lavenham.  The varnish on the pond looks great.

I think farmers used their night soil to fertilise the fields so rather than drinking from the pond I wouldn't eat any of the vegetables unwashed.

Offline has.been

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 8/4: the pond is saved!
« Reply #214 on: April 09, 2020, 01:51:14 PM »
Silent Invader, I am with you on this.

Offline Mad Lord Snapcase

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 8/4: the pond is saved!
« Reply #215 on: April 09, 2020, 01:52:51 PM »
All in all, a beautiful construction. It really does look like a film set. Great work.   :-*   :-*   :-*


Online Elk101

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 8/4: the pond is saved!
« Reply #216 on: April 09, 2020, 02:23:29 PM »
Very well stated Steve.

Offline Silent Invader

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 9/4: Redoubt, redan, emplacement, trench?
« Reply #217 on: April 09, 2020, 03:39:55 PM »
Thanks all, work continues apace with sundry other parts.

The village is a transit route and watering point that might need protecting so methinks I need some sort of defensive position that can accommodate infantry and/or cannon.

It just so happened that some time back I had started a terrain piece to represent a small brick field cut into a clay hillock, which is just the right size to accommodate three cannon embrasures.



Changes have been made, and when the plaster is cured I shall backfill and overlay with sand.





As regards the open entrance, I’m presently undecided as to whether to add a gate, some Chevaux de Frise, or just another wall of gabions.

Anyways..... what should I call it? There were redoubts that weren’t Vaudenesque with pointy bits but it’s not really in accordance with the stylistic representation of one, it isn’t a redan as it’s not fully open to the rear, it’s not really a bastion because it’s a post rather than a self-contained fort. Can anyone advise the period appropriate nomenclature?

Offline Mad Lord Snapcase

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 9/4: Redoubt, redan, emplacement, trench?
« Reply #218 on: April 09, 2020, 03:54:22 PM »
No idea what the correct name is but it does look very good already. I like your thinking.

Online Romark

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 9/4: Redoubt, redan, emplacement, trench?
« Reply #219 on: April 09, 2020, 04:03:42 PM »
Hi Steve,another great build,as to a name for it.....how about a Sconce?
Whatever you call it I'm sure it'll look good  :)


Offline Silent Invader

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 9/4: Redoubt, redan, emplacement, trench?
« Reply #220 on: April 09, 2020, 04:31:50 PM »
Cheers chaps  :D

as to a name for it.....how about a Sconce?

Sconce is a great suggestion! Thank you.

Quote
A sconce is a small protective fortification, such as an earthwork, often placed on a mound as a defensive work for artillery. It was used primarily in Northern Europe from the late Middle Ages until the 19th century. This type of fortification was common during the English Civil War, and the remains of one such structure can be seen on Fort Royal Hill in Worcester, England.

Quote
A schanze is, according to the specialist terminology of German fortification construction, an independent fieldwork, that is frequently used in the construction of temporary (not permanent) field fortifications. The word is German and has no direct English equivalent, although the word sconce is derived from Dutch schans, which is cognate to the German word. In everyday German speech, however, it is commonplace to refer to permanent fortifications as schanzen, because in many places in times of war, fieldworks that were only temporarily thrown up were later turned into permanent fortifications.

Offline Mad Lord Snapcase

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 9/4: Redoubt, redan, emplacement, trench?
« Reply #221 on: April 09, 2020, 04:39:53 PM »
Hi Steve,another great build,as to a name for it.....how about a Sconce?
Whatever you call it I'm sure it'll look good  :)

Thinking about it, years ago when I used to do ECW re-enactments, we did call small fortifications like that a sconce. I am sure Romark is right.   :)

Offline Silent Invader

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 9/4: Redoubt, redan, emplacement, trench?
« Reply #222 on: April 09, 2020, 04:42:21 PM »
Thinking about it, years ago when I used to do ECW re-enactments, we did call small fortifications like that a sconce. I am sure Romark is right.   :)

Excellent. Thanks Martin  8)

Offline Malamute

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 9/4: Redoubt, redan, emplacement, trench?
« Reply #223 on: April 09, 2020, 05:13:33 PM »
That’s going to look great. I think leave the entrance open with a removable Cheveaux de Frise.  :)
"These creatures do not die like the bee after the first sting, but go on age after age, feeding on the blood of the living"  - Abraham Van Helsing

Offline Silent Invader

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Re: Not-So Merrye Englande: UD 9/4: Redoubt, redan, emplacement, trench?
« Reply #224 on: April 09, 2020, 05:18:04 PM »
That’s going to look great. I think leave the entrance open with a removable Cheveaux de Frise.  :)

Yes I think you’re right. I might also do a removable line of barrels, as an optional extra.

 

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