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Author Topic: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval  (Read 2915 times)

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2019, 05:22:08 PM »
By the way, Francisco, besides in English, will be published in Spanish too?


Offline Goliad

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2019, 06:56:09 PM »
I am interested in how "petite guerre" was conducted in any period. Are there ancient accounts of small actions that give an idea of composition of forces? In my mind I see small scale actions dominated by the myriad light infantry and mercenaries of the time - peltasts, cretans, numidians, thracians etc. How often would "heavies" engage at this operational level?

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2019, 07:25:28 PM »
I am interested in how "petite guerre" was conducted in any period. Are there ancient accounts of small actions that give an idea of composition of forces? In my mind I see small scale actions dominated by the myriad light infantry and mercenaries of the time - peltasts, cretans, numidians, thracians etc. How often would "heavies" engage at this operational level?

I think that the answer is, as usually, depends.

Is it a skirmish in the context of a siege? Is a party protecting foragers? Is an ambush?

For example, we know that at Alesia legionaires were involved in most of the myriad of skirmishes that happened during the siege, as well as during the siege of Jerusalem. There were also several skirmishes involving legionaires and auxiliarii during the Batavii revolt. To be honest, I strongly suspect that it was small war rather than formal battle what was the most common experience of warfare in the Antiquity. Of course, a different matter is how those "heavies" were actually armed when not engaged in open battle but in "small war".

Offline Irregular Wars Nic

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2019, 09:17:36 PM »
Hello, one quick question: are these rules designed for figure removal, or whole unit removal?

Thanks

Nic

Offline seldon

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2019, 12:30:03 AM »
I can write in Spanish as well... so eventually they could come out in Spanish.. but .. step by step.. now we are working on the book in english.

We've looked extensively at small actions accounts, there are some but as with most in ancients there is contradictory information.. and like Antonio says you could be playing A part of a battle so.. what did we do..

We came up with a VERY flexible system to allow for pickup/competitive games.. those running historical or thematic scenarios don't need lists :)

The system classifies troops in Civis, Milites and Rare.. depending on how often you could expect to see those troops in raiding actions or similar aspects...

You can choose to build a force using the % of Civis, Milites, Rare that what we call the "Muster" force allows.. which is the same proportion for everyone... or you can build an "Ad Hoc" force and put whatever you want... if you are playing a pick up game with a Muster force vs an Ad Hoc force the Muster force gets better chances to pass the force break test.. because the Muster force was collected quickly from available troops to perform a mission probably more important than the troops and so the troops try to fulfill the mission... your Ad Hoc force probably has some critical troops that if things don't look good you might as well pull them out... no point in loosing 10 triarii to fight for some sheep.. even if for whatever reason they ended up there..

But that is the rationalization.. the actual game play effect is that you have a lot of flexibility on how to build your army.. We've seen great variety of armies.. some with mix of troops, others mostly light troops... What you will probably not see is armies made fully of heavy troops, they get tired quickly and get killed so you will always choose to have a bunch of lights.. BUT if you wanted to do all heavies.. YOU COULD...

It is a very different approach to what you usually see, and it gives players a lot of flexibility. We believe it works, we've playtested for about a year now... Once it gets to open play people could break it.. but we feel it is robust and we feel that it is the best way to reflect the fact that when you are looking at an army of 40 guys.. who can really tell you the % of guys that you should find of each troop type ? Not us...   A very similar flexible approach has been followed with allies.

This is a game for people to play and explore.. As I mentioned the design and point system for troops will be available from the get go so you can design your own troops if you want... Even if you will have the main lists available if you don't want to spend your time on that.

Rules are for figure removal.. you could technically use stands and mark casualties, nothing will break as there are no issues with base geometry, but they will be better appreciated with figure removal..

our units are 6-10 guys.. and you have usually 6 to 7 units..

Does this help ?

Offline Goliad

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2019, 07:07:02 AM »
I'm looking forward to getting these rules. How do the rules handle cavalry?

Offline seldon

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2019, 01:12:48 PM »
Ok, Cavalry.

Cavalry is tricky for a couple of reasons. Our book main lists is around Punic Wars when cav was not used as at later times.  Many times even dismounting and fighting.. We didn’t want people to have to have 2x figures for cav.. so we had to find ways in which cav would be useful while still mounted.

And again this is for small actions so that helps us, because the key advantage of cavalry which is mobility is critical.

Uses for cavalry in Clash:

 1) you keep them out of reach from the enemy and do lightning attacks on enemy units that accumulated much fatigue, while your cavalry is active they are difficult to attack on reaction due to their speed.

2) you use them to fulfill the objectives of the scenario, many of our scenarios are ideal for cav because... they are scouting scenarios

3) deadly and horrible hit and run, Numidian cav, Tarantine Cav... oh my god they are a torture... best option against the hide in terrain or close ranks and overlap your shields at a place where they cannot flank you..

4) finally during the engagement phase cavalry can leverage their movement notoriously, so effectively outflank the enemy.. without the need of abstract “flanking” force rules, it happens naturally through the engagement phase mechanics


Things not to do with cavalry, leave them stopped within arms reach of enemy troops, either missile troops or combat troops.. there they suffer because they are generally not heavily armored like infantry combat troops and when they are not active they loose many of their advantages

Also don’t get into bad terrain, you will see that although we don’ force you to have dismounted models cav in bad terrain almost act as if they had dismounted and where fighting on foot..

All this is different for knight cav or cataphracts, those are covered in the rules and the compendium lists but they are not on the main book..

Again a cavalry unit will be 6 to 10 guys, so there are no massive cavalry charges...

Basing as with everything else is not critical, traditional 25x50 bases, circular bases LoTR style, new oval bases.. all work..
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 01:36:19 PM by seldon »

Offline Easy E

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2019, 05:20:12 PM »
I am interested in how "petite guerre" was conducted in any period. Are there ancient accounts of small actions that give an idea of composition of forces? In my mind I see small scale actions dominated by the myriad light infantry and mercenaries of the time - peltasts, cretans, numidians, thracians etc. How often would "heavies" engage at this operational level?

In Xenophon's Anabasis, you get a pretty good look into how Petite Guerre was waged in the ancient Greek world. 

The heavies would be part of the battle, but often act as anchors or blocking forces for the lighter units to operate from or around.  They could also be used as a "disruptor" to shake an enemy out of a fixed location or terrain.   
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Offline seldon

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2019, 05:19:19 PM »
Anabasis is such a great read... and the novelizations available are so cool...

That is how heavies work for us... They get tired quickly so you cannot have them do many things , best option is to put them to hold in some key point of the battlefield and move your "tasks to accomplish" to your lights and mediums...

This can be tricky depending on the scenario you are playing ( there will be six in the main book )..

This is all, one interpretation.. Ancients are difficult, lots of contradictory information, but if you accept the basic principles the game will make sense...

The flexibility in the army building is notable and we've been playtesting for a long time now so hopefully it is robust...  It is likely very competitive players might find explotable loopholes and that could lead to some eventual restrictions.. but for the more thematic player the option to design the very different forces should be fun..

Easy E. great job on Men of Bronze... got my book last week and I am eager to give it a try with my 10mm armies. I think it is great to have a set of rules that allows to play large battles in a manageable amount of time. Looking forward to future men of bronze historical battle scenario representations as you have in the book.

I'm thinking I could do a scouting scenario with Clash that defines the conditions for the large battle to be played with MoB ... I'll have to give that a try !

Offline seldon

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2019, 09:52:51 PM »
Would you guys allow me a little bit of self promotion ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN2bilWFizI

:D

Offline guitarheroandy

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2019, 10:57:17 AM »
Would you guys allow me a little bit of self promotion ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN2bilWFizI

:D

That was great! The rulebook looks amazing - beautifully set out and I personally love all the artwork we got a tiny glimpse of. I'm even more excited for its release now and my 4th Century BC Republican Romans are now firmly on top of the painting queue!

Online Plynkes

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2019, 11:21:52 AM »
Anabasis is such a great read... and the novelizations available are so cool...

The movie "The Warriors" is something of a classic in my family, though most of them have no idea what it is based on. I'm currently reading Manfredi's "The Last Army" and thinking of adapting the idea to an African setting, with Masai mercenaries trying to get home after a job goes south in Unyamwezi.

So yeah, another Anabasis fan here. :)





Edit: It's the Lost army, not the last one. What an idiot.  lol


« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 06:44:19 PM by Plynkes »
Thálatta! Thálatta!

Offline seldon

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2019, 02:00:16 PM »
That was great! The rulebook looks amazing - beautifully set out and I personally love all the artwork we got a tiny glimpse of. I'm even more excited for its release now and my 4th Century BC Republican Romans are now firmly on top of the painting queue!

Awesome !

Hope it matches expectations when it comes out !

Offline seldon

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2019, 02:04:27 PM »
The movie "The Warriors" is something of a classic in my family, though most of them have no idea what it is based on. I'm currently reading Manfredi's "The Last Army" and thinking of adapting the idea to an African setting, with Masai mercenaries trying to get home after a job goes south in Unyamwezi.

So yeah, another Anabasis fan here. :)


I had no clue about that movie!

I also like M Curtis Ford “The Ten Thousand”

I recently finished Manfredi’s Tyrant and loved it...

Online Plynkes

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Re: Clash of Spears - Small Actions rules for Ancients/Medieval
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2019, 06:42:32 PM »
Yeah, The Warriors was based on a novel inspired by Anabasis. Bit smaller in scope, mind. The Bronx to Coney Island isn't quite in the same league as Cunaxa to the sea. Still, it's all fun. There are a few clues in a few of the character names, which seem more fitted to the ancient middle east than the New York streets: Cyrus, Cleon and Ajax. :)

I have Tyrant, but haven't started reading it yet. Looking forward to it.


Best of luck with your game.