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Author Topic: Gurkha Dilemma  (Read 1083 times)

Online Romark

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2019, 09:21:35 AM »
Sounds great :)
Looking forward to your update already  :)


Offline Rogerc

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2019, 12:04:32 PM »
Working on the test Gurkha with covered shako today but yesterday I got the first Govorner Generals bodyguard finished. Still to decide on using the Perry plastic horse or the Iron Duke metal horse (I think the latter ismore accurate) what do you think? Simple to do, using Perry plastic light dragoon in overalls, trim the peak from the shako and add a flowing (ish) plume, I also had to add tails to the Perry horses.

gov gen 1 by Roger Castle, on Flickr
gov gen 2 by Roger Castle, on Flickr
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My blog gapagnw.blogspot.co.uk

Offline Rogerc

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2019, 02:14:58 PM »
Gurkha test figure mark 2 with shako cover.

I think both with cover and without look good, I may be less than enthusiastic because the pose is a bit wooden and Gurkhas as suggested above need to be in aggressive poses. If I use the Iron Duke flank sepoys that will solve this, I just need a couple with hands in the air I can convert to take a Kukri, just two or three Kukris waving about will make the difference I think with this unit.

gurkha1 by Roger Castle, on Flickr
gurkha 2 by Roger Castle, on Flickr

Offline OB

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2019, 05:32:41 PM »
That's been a very useful thread to me.  I hadn't realised that the Gurkhas wore shakos.  Very nice figures as ever Roger.

Offline Rogerc

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2019, 05:57:08 PM »
Your very welcome, I just need to decide what I do next, is it a green stuff peak or a covered shako head swap, or do I do a mix (that might work well) the test figures show me what the unit will look like so no rush yet. I will almost certainly use the Iron Duke sepoys, I do need to find a couple of figures with a waving hand or similar to chop up and give them a Kukri still. Gettign there. And pretty happy with the Govorner Generals bodyguard to be honest.

Offline OB

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2019, 07:36:07 PM »
I'm pretty much shadowing you in 15mm at the moment with British Gurkhas and the Governor General's Body Guard being my next two units.  Your GG's Body Guard looks good. Do you happen to know if it was a full strength unit?

I've put the order of battle for Mudki and Bhudowal on my blog should that be of interest to folk here.

https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com

« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 07:48:34 PM by OB »

Online Romark

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2019, 10:31:34 PM »
Gurkha head swop looks great :)
Nice idea with the cavalry mini,my vote is for the Iron Duke mounts  :)
Have you looked at the Mutineer Miniature horses?The horse furniture is the same.
Ebob sculpts I believe,look very similar to ID but only £3 for a pack of three horses.
Just an idea :)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 10:38:50 PM by Romark »

Offline Rogerc

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2019, 11:47:00 PM »
A great idea Romark thank you, will definately have a look at them

OB I think Govorner Generals Bodyguard were a full stregnth unit and well thought of. In the frst Sikh war I am pretty sure they were split into two wings so two small units and at least one of them was an all Native cavalry unit, so these would have been the equivelant of the European cavalry in that Brigade, will have to check y sources to be sure but I am pretty sure.

For the moment I am doing just 8 figures to represent it as just over half stregnth being a small unit for Black Powder. 

Offline OB

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2019, 08:35:23 AM »
Yes, they deployed one wing to re enforce the flank at Mudki so that makes sense.  It hadn't occurred to me that presumably the other remained with Hardinge the GG.  I had thought the rank and file to be all Indian should 50% be British troopers?

Offline Rogerc

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2019, 09:56:11 AM »
No they are all Native troops, what I meant was that most brigades had 1 European and 2 Native units, the European troops providing the core of each brigade. One of the exceptions was the Brigade with the  bodyguard as they provided the core rather than a European unit. Apologies, I didnt explain myself very well.

Offline OB

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2019, 01:35:38 PM »
Thanks Roger.

Offline Rogerc

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2019, 03:18:46 PM »
I am looking at the orders of battle in my old Miniature wargames sikh wars articles.

Mudki has Goughs cavalry brigade with the bodyguard and the 5th BNLC.
Ferozeshah the same as above
Aliwal they are in Stedmans brigade with the 1st and 5th BNLC and the Shekawatti cavalry
Sobroan they form their own brigade weirdly, the third brigade makes me think it was a particularly large formation hence the ability to slit it into two wings.

I cant see any reference to them in action in the second war which is a shame as in many ways tha seems a more interestign set of scenarios.

Offline ARKOUDAKI

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma - Making the Gurkhas look authentic
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2019, 05:57:31 PM »
Well some great points about one of my favorite periods but some of which aren't exactly correct. For example, the Gurkhas didn't wear shakos with peaks. The graphic cited by Arthur was from c1830, and the Sikh Wars took place 1845-6 and 1847-9. The following graphic by Grant - who was actually on the scene - gives you a good idea of what the Gurkha's looked like during the 1st Sikh War. It is entitled "The Nusseree Battalion teaching the Sikhs the art of Cookery".  Grant's watercolors are a very useful source for sorting out costumes, as are others who were actually there and paid attention to detail.

The second graphic is from the Gurkha Museum in Winchester, and while I think the hat looks a big off on the display it gives you some idea of its appearance. FYI, the Gurkha was capturing a flag during the Sikh War but the flag shown isn't a Sikh flag, but rather more like an Afghan banner. The flag shown in the Grant graphic, which is an Akali type flag, is the one the Gurkha units actually captured during the 1st Sikh War. Having done the research via the National Army Museum (NAM), I became aware that the Gurkha Museum display got this wrong as they used the wrong flag. Mistakes like this creep into historical research over time. That's why you always have to be careful when you are looking at things.

The third graphic is an Ackermann print of the 31st (with some Gurkhas in the foreground) at the Battle of Sobraon that ended the 1st Sikh War. It again shows the Gurkhas in the cap.

The fourth graphic is of Gurkhas during the Indian Mutiny but again captures the look of the units. The Gurkhas were not all tiny men but varied in size like most Asians of the time. Hence, I wouldn't worry about 'stature' too much.

Sorry that your conversion of the peaked shako isn't much use but it just wasn't worn by the Gurkhas during the Sikh Wars.

As for the Gurkha Kukri, these aren't difficult to make using plasticard. If you need a lot then you can always make a resin cast. Alternatively, I am sure there is someone who has done one of these as a STL file for 3D printing, so perhaps you could look at that option.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 06:19:21 PM by ARKOUDAKI »

Offline OB

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2019, 06:02:43 PM »
According to Amarpal Singh Sidhu Gough's brigade was transferred from the centre to support White's cavalry brigade on the flank.  If you're right about the size of the GGs bodyguard that is useful in our understanding of the battle.   

As far as I can see the minimum British cavalry brigade was a full unit and a wing.  That might mean that the GG's bodyguard met or exceeded that size requirement f they could be considered a brigade in their own right at Sabraon.  Interesting stuff.

Offline ARKOUDAKI

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Re: Gurkha Dilemma
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2019, 06:34:49 PM »
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As far as I can see the minimum British cavalry brigade was a full unit and a wing.  That might mean that the GG's bodyguard met or exceeded that size requirement f they could be considered a brigade in their own right at Sabraon.  Interesting stuff.
I would be careful using OB as a basis for things. While it shows what the units started off with there were casualties. Also, if you look at the actual dispatches and battle maps drawn up then you come to realize that the cavalry was widely dispersed, with squadrons sent here and there at times. The general aim was the same with the infantry, to partner up more reliable Queen's troops with Native units. That said, some of the Native units proved more reliable then the British regs at times!

As for the size of the Governor's Bodyguard, it was around 350 at Sobroan.