*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 12:25:19 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Recent

Author Topic: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.  (Read 3251 times)

Offline Riquez

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 21
Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« on: April 30, 2019, 05:47:39 AM »
I am having issues with assembled metal miniatures parts (swords, arms, backpacks etc) falling off after a few weeks; it seems the "superglue" isn't holding.

I prefer ones with minimal assembly (preferably none) but nonetheless after a week or two i go to pick one up & the hand+sword will fall off.
I am wondering if there are any specific tips to help stop this?

The glue I am using is "cemedine 3000 rxf" which specifically mentions it is for glueing metal models, so it should be ok.

Figures are cleaned with soapy water/toothbrush, dried. I use a metal etching primer (clear, lacquer based) & the following day a fine white base coat spray on miniatures & parts. Assemble with superglue before painting.
In some cases I might paint the parts separately & assembly near the end - for example when the part would make painting armour etc behind it very difficult - but I try to leave the bonding area unpainted & use a small file to make it rough if possible too.

Where I live is very high humidity (sub-tropical island) so I am wondering if this has some effect ~ or perhaps it's my method or I should try another glue.
Just looking for your valued advice - thanks!

Offline sukhe_bator

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1620
  • bad hair day
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2019, 08:00:00 AM »
Almost certainly the humidity does not help. One trick is to score the surfaces to be glued with a scalpel first to give the glue extra 'handholds' to key into. It is why most modellers use mini drills and pins when attaching limbs etc. You'd probably be better off by switching to using a 2 part 5 min epoxy instead. The trick is to mix just enough for the job and have a jig ready or the patience to hold/support the pieces in contact for the allotted time.
Warriors dreams, summer grasses, all that remains

Offline Cubs

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4912
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2019, 08:33:22 AM »
Yup, scoring the surface (in a cross-hatch pattern) is a definite bonus but not always easy with a small gluing area. Personally I put nothing on the metal - no primer or anything - before gluing, otherwise you're not gluing metal to metal, you're gluing primer to primer. After the glued bit has set, I usually put a little bit more glue on for luck with the tip of a cocktail stick, and allow it to run into the join.

But yeah, changes in heat and humidity can weaken glue, there's just no way around it.
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

Paul Cubbin Miniature Painter

Offline has.been

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 8229
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2019, 09:27:09 AM »
If heat 7 humidity are the problem, why not try putting the freshly glued
figures in a plastic box & stick that in the fridge (take them out the next morning).

+1 to the making sure you are gluing metal to metal & not primer to primer.
I would scrape off the primer (as well as some scoring) before gluing.

I tend to first 'spot weld' the joint with a super glue gel, then (when that is good & set)
I dribble liquid super glue into the joint (to re-enforce the joint)

Another thing that can help is (where possible) adjust the weapon/arm so that
the glued bit is supported. e.g. Instead of waving a musket (all the pressure is
on the very small glue spot) have it resting on a shoulder (with a dribble of
super glue to provide extra support)

A long time ago I followed the example of the late & great Peter Guilder, &
soldered pin bayonets onto Napoleonic muskets. My eyes & hands are not up to
that level of skill anymore, but flattened pins for swords & long pins for lances
will work & are very robust.

Offline Munindk

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 642
  • Denmark
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2019, 10:10:38 AM »
Have you washed the miniatures first?
Some metal and resin miniatures are coated in a release agent that will mess with both glue and paint.

Putting freshly superglued miniatures into a closed container (doesnt have to be airtight) can result in them being covered in a thin rough layer of... glue fumes?
I've had this happen with both loctite and a cheap off brand glue but I dont know if its universal.

Offline jon_1066

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 909
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2019, 10:14:20 AM »
Try using a two part epoxy.  I have had problems with superglue when gluing plastic to metal but not metal to metal (or plastic to plastic).  As previously mentioned score the surfaces first and make sure they don't have paint on them.  You have already washed them - but make sure you haven't left any soap residue behind.

Offline DS615

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 405
    • Fandango Alpha
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2019, 11:12:06 AM »
I use Krazy Glue all the time, and have never had an issue with things just falling off.
Seems like it would be a simple thing to just try another glue.  Can't hurt anyway.
It may not be the brand, but maybe that specific bottle/tube has an issue of some sort.
- Scott

Offline Michi

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4146
  • Hoist the colours!
    • Tableterror
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2019, 11:14:38 AM »
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 12:39:18 PM by Michi »

Offline Hammers

  • Amateur papiermachiéer
  • Moderator
  • Elder God
  • *
  • Posts: 16070
  • Workbench and Pulp Moderator
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2019, 11:40:11 AM »
I am having issues with assembled metal miniatures parts (swords, arms, backpacks etc) falling off after a few weeks; it seems the "superglue" isn't holding.

I prefer ones with minimal assembly (preferably none) but nonetheless after a week or two i go to pick one up & the hand+sword will fall off.
I am wondering if there are any specific tips to help stop this?

The glue I am using is "cemedine 3000 rxf" which specifically mentions it is for glueing metal models, so it should be ok.

Figures are cleaned with soapy water/toothbrush, dried. I use a metal etching primer (clear, lacquer based) & the following day a fine white base coat spray on miniatures & parts. Assemble with superglue before painting.
In some cases I might paint the parts separately & assembly near the end - for example when the part would make painting armour etc behind it very difficult - but I try to leave the bonding area unpainted & use a small file to make it rough if possible too.

Where I live is very high humidity (sub-tropical island) so I am wondering if this has some effect ~ or perhaps it's my method or I should try another glue.
Just looking for your valued advice - thanks!

A lot of people has already given  sage advice so sorry if I reiterate:
-pinning is always the  best solution for which ever glue you choose, Obvioulsy, pinning is not always an option but it is worth developing yours skills and confidence in using pining.
-use superglue for where snug bonds with large contact areas and litte stress on both parts. The thinner the  layer of glue the stronger the bond.
- 5 min 2-part expoxy is less brittle and has slightly voscous properties (if blended with the right amount of hardener). This means it will endure more stress. It also has filling properties, which means it can be applied relatively thickly without reducing durability. This means it iit is the most appropriate choice of glue when fitting pins and slots as the fit rarely is 100%.

Offline Enakan

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 72
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2019, 02:50:54 PM »
I'd have to second the above comments about drilling and pinning figures. 

I do that with pretty much everything anymore, from plastics to metal figures.  Get yourself a nice pin vise and an assortment of drill bits, some brass rod (steel is hard to cut!), and you're in business with pretty much any superglue.  I've had figures drop/fly off my army board, land three or four feet down, and still remain intact.

NOT say though, a big 54mm sized dragon...........made of metal.  Even with all the multiple pins in him, sometimes several per joint........

Poor guy EXPLODED when he hit the floor!!!

Sniff.........

 :o

Offline Riquez

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 21
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2019, 03:49:02 AM »
Thank you everyone for the sage advice.

I will get some epoxy & make sure the joints are scored /primer free. (I was doing this, but probably not very enthusiastically.)
I have ordered a jewellers hand drill too.
I think I will give the gel superglue a try out also as that's something i can easily acquire locally.

 :-*

Offline Hammers

  • Amateur papiermachiéer
  • Moderator
  • Elder God
  • *
  • Posts: 16070
  • Workbench and Pulp Moderator
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2019, 06:09:14 AM »
Thank you everyone for the sage advice.

I will get some epoxy & make sure the joints are scored /primer free. (I was doing this, but probably not very enthusiastically.)
I have ordered a jewellers hand drill too.
I think I will give the gel superglue a try out also as that's something i can easily acquire locally.

 :-*

Two-part epoxy glue is readilly avaiable in hardware stores.

Offline Captain Blood

  • Global Moderator
  • Elder God
  • Posts: 19305
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2019, 07:06:37 AM »
With the epoxy, make sure you put a little more of the hardener in than the instructions say. It means you will have less time (a few minutes) to work with the glue before it starts setting hard. But too many times I’ve followed the manufacturers’ instructions with a 50:50 mix, only to find I hadn’t put quite 50% hardener in - and it never goes off. You are left with a horrible gummy mess of glue which will not set fully hard and eventually needs to be wiped off with acetone or turpentine, which can make a right mess of the model concerned.

Epoxy is the best and most reliable for sticking metal to metal. But you have to get the mix right. And it doesn’t provide an instant bond. You have to leave it to harden - which can take a few minutes, a few hours, or never, depending on the mix you’ve used. So you can’t just stick (say) an unsupported arm on. It will just fall off again before the epoxy hardens and sets. So it needs careful handling  ;)

Offline mxconnell

  • Student
  • Posts: 17
    • The Lead Covenant
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2019, 04:01:12 PM »
Just a brief add:
Not all gel super glues are the same. In the U.S., I use Gorilla glue superglue. It claims to be "impact tough" due to some additive to increase it's impact resistance. I have found this to be very much the case - I do much less pinning than I used to without problems.

That said, I am an epoxy fan and tend to use is much more than my gaming friends.

Martin

Offline FreakyFenton

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1122
Re: Superglue doesn't hold weapons/limbs for long.
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2019, 04:31:47 PM »
+1 on scoring/hatching, pinning with metal rod.

Some glues and their ability to work deteriorates over time. Some cans of Revell's miniature glue has that problem. I haven't had it myself thus far, but maybe also check the date on the glue. Might help!
"No human being would stack books like -that-!" -Dr. Peter Venkman