[Thud & Blunder] Assorted questions

[LocalNemesis]

Greetings all!

I've picked up the rulebook, and the game looks very promising.  It is exactly the kind of skirmish game I have an itch for these days.  I have played In Her Majesty's Name a few times so I have a passing familiarity with the rules system.

I have a few questions, if anyone has a bit of time to help me work through them:


1. Armor costing
How are you supposed to cost armor when it is magic or has a property?  Are you supposed to select the armor/shield combination and then apply magic, properties, and so on?  Or can you build the items separately and then figure the appropriate Armor Value?

For example, Plate and a Large Shield cost 49 points and grants an Armor Value of 15.  If the armor is Magical with the Antivenom property that adds 11 points (5 points for Magical, 6 points for Antivenom).  If the Large Shield is Magical with the Born of Fire property that adds 10 points (2 points for a Magical shield, 8 points for Born of Fire).  This is a grand total of 70 points.

If you built this piece by piece it would be 36 points for the Plate armor (25 points for Plate, 11 points for Magical and Antivenom), 12 points for the Large Shield (2 points for the Large Shield, 10 points for the Magical and Born of Fire), for a grand total of 48 points -- a very great difference indeed.

It seems to me a very odd thing that a Large Shield costs 25 points when paired with Plate armor (for a +2 Armor Value bonus) but only 3 points when paired with Leather/Padded tunic (for the very same +2 Armor Value bonus).  It makes me think that perhaps I am doing something incorrectly...


2. Weapon Bonus for Monsters
What is the Weapon Bonus for Fantastic Beasts (section 6.2, page 52)?  I'm trying to figure out how it is calculated and given a points cost.  I'm wondering how it works for a Fantastic Beast like a Lich.

For example, a player wants to use a Lich as the leader for an Undead warband and takes the Lich entry for use.  The Leadership Trait will be added for extra points.  I presume, from reading the entry, that weapons and armor must also be purchased.  Say a Long Sword is taken as the primary weapon.  When the Lich makes a melee attack with that weapon, what bonus is applied?  Is it +7 (Fight Value of +2, Weapon Bonus of +2, Long Sword Attack Bonus of +3)?  In what other cases would the Weapon Bonus be applied?


3. Magical Powers limits by Grade
Many of the Fantastic Beasts with the Magical Talent Trait have limits on the number of power they can purchase, but the limits do not seem to be consistent through all entries.  Are these limits arbitrary, or is there supposed to be a system applied?

For example, most Magical Talent [Adept] Fantastic Beasts are limited to 4 Grade 0 and 2 Grade 1 Magical Powers.  However, the Greater Demon with Magical Talent [Adept] is limited to 5 Grade 0 and 4 Grade 1 Magical Powers.  There are similar differences between Magical Talent [Master] Fantastic Beasts, too.


I understand that all the rules are open to change according to the local playgroup, but it would still be nice to have some guidance on what was intended.  Most people (I think) like to play the rules as presented in the rulebook, especially when playing at multiple venues.

Thank you all for any help you can give!

LN

[D. Brownie]

Hi,
like you I have many perplexities about the game, as you can see here http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=115918.msg1451382#msg1451382
I like very much the basics of the game, but playing It I found out that there are some things that don't work especially in the balancing of points. If you play according the rules you have to chose if you want very cool backgrounded lists but totally uncapable to win, or a strong winning list without cool overpriced abilities, every time almost the same...
In my opinion house rules are necessary to have a balanced game in which you can use all abilities, spells, items... creating characters you like (and enjoying all the many and many possibilities that the game offers) that otherwise would be useless losers...

[LocalNemesis]

You made a number of good points in your post.  Being new to the game I hadn't even thought of the inherent bonuses of natural armor.  It's something to keep in mind, for certain.

I can absolutely understand their desire to keep it simple, but given their target audience I don't think it's unreasonable to think we can handle a bit of complexity here and there.  Especially when things start to produce odd results when costing out armor and so on.

LN

[nandrin]

I played T&B two times now, but I played a lot of games with Daisho, which uses the same ruleset, so I already was faliliar with the mechanics.

My opinion to your questions:
1. Armour
I think you have to purchase the armor as a set, not as single pieces. The final cost with magical etc. will be 70, not 48. It may be odd that adding a shield to a set of armor costs different with each armor set, but it makes sense because all what matters is the final armor rating. 15 for plate+shield is MUCH more effective than 10 for leather+shield. 15 makes the figure near invulnerable for ordinary figures and should be very expensive for game balance reasons.

2. Monsters & weapon bonus
I think the weapon bonus for monsters represent their natural weapons (fangs, claws...). Donīt know how this is calculated but it seems fairly balanced to me. When you will play a Lich with longsword, I think you have to pay the points for the sword and its bonus will replace the natural weapon bonus in the list. So the Lich would have +5 (FV+2 and Sword+3).

3. Magical Weapons by Grade
Seems to me the authors want to make the monsters clearly distiguishable and provide a guideline for beginners. It seems ok for me that a greater demon can posess more and higher magic than a lesser demon. Of course, as you said it yourself, feel free to tinker with the rules and make your own monsters for your own campaign or gaming world.

I played many games of Daisho and can say this is a ruleset which works very well and smooth and also offers a lot of options for building your own group of heroes. But it is NOT a competitive game for tournaments. This is clearly a scenario-driven, narrative game and not intended for die-hard number crunchers. Read the scenarios and you can easily see that best laid out plans will soon be thwarted by random events, wandering monsters etc. So donīt bother too much with points, have fun with some chaos instead!

[Craig]

I've picked up the rulebook, and the game looks very promising.  It is exactly the kind of skirmish game I have an itch for these days.  I have played In Her Majesty's Name a few times so I have a passing familiarity with the rules system.

I have a few questions, if anyone has a bit of time to help me work through them:

 My apologies for my tardy replies, so here are my answers:

1. Armour costing
This is based on the final armour rating, not the sum of its parts.
Being Magical and having Properties are added on top of the cost for the total Armour Rating.

2.Weapon Bonus for Monsters
The Weapon Bonus in the table is for their natural weapons such as talons, bite etc. If you give your Lich a Longsword then Add the FV and the normal weapon bonus for the Longsword, i.e. FV+2 and Longsword +3 for a total of +5.

3. Magical powers limits by grade
The listed limits are arbitrary and for guidance only.

ANd thanks go to Nandrin for stepping in with such good answers 

[Craig]

Hi,
like you I have many perplexities about the game, as you can see here http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=115918.msg1451382#msg1451382
I like very much the basics of the game, but playing It I found out that there are some things that don't work especially in the balancing of points. If you play according the rules you have to chose if you want very cool backgrounded lists but totally uncapable to win, or a strong winning list without cool overpriced abilities, every time almost the same...
In my opinion house rules are necessary to have a balanced game in which you can use all abilities, spells, items... creating characters you like (and enjoying all the many and many possibilities that the game offers) that otherwise would be useless losers...

Hi DB,

The points system, with a few refinements has now served four games and seems to work for most people. However, as we do say, these rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men, so we encourage players to modify them to suit their own style of play.

I often play 'cool' thematic games and find that I have to adapt my tactics to their strengths and weaknesses. This way I do get a decent number of wins, and always a fun game.