Different Scales in the Same Game?

[armchairgeneral]

I noticed in his recent battle report that Madaxeman uses 28mm generals for his 15mm Assyrian army. I have also seen 28mm large horse and musket games where the village buildings are 15mm scale or smaller and 20mm scale aircraft used in 15mm WW2 games. Has anyone any other examples?

I am just musing over the reasoning and aesthetics for doing this? I guess giving a sense of perspective and distance is one reason where the larger scale is for the most part going to be nearer the players. Also a single 28mm building probably occupies the ground area of a village for many rule scales but a single building doesn't look great to represent a built up area.

I am currently building an ADLG army. The rules require a representation of a camp/baggage on a base so I was wondering about using 15mm tents to give a sense of distance from the battle line. Although there is some flexibility on the base size, I expect I will only be able to fit a couple of 28mm tents in the area. The camp goes on the edge of the table at the back so I suppose it just represents the edge of the camp but I am still not convinced how good this will look?

[Cubs]

I find this upsetting and it's hurting my teeth.

However, I would have no problem using a 1:72 aircraft in a game with 28mm figs. Mostly just because aircraft are really really big in real life, even single-seater fighters, so the smaller scale looks okay. Same with using smaller scale buildings and such.

I suppose it comes down to representation. I read an argument once about artillery limbers never being properly represented in Napoleonic games. One side of the argument went that since they were there, they should be represented. Another side went that a single model represents several guns, so the limber is assumed to be included in the base depth. Using a different scale might solve an issue like that.

On the other hand, your general model on the table is usually just a single model or small vignette, taken to represent your entire general staff HQ, so again, I see how using a larger scale model here helps it to stand out and cover a more appropriate area of the table.

So using small scale tents for a baggage area seems like a decent way to represent it.

[Hobgoblin]

I had some thoughts about this a while back - mainly as a way of getting cheap 1/72 'extras' into 28mm RPG encounters - especially for crowded areas like marketplaces or city squares.

The aesthetics would be odd, but it would be easier to get a sense of a very crowded area than with conventionally based 28s.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Interesting question.

On the subject of building scale, it does depend on what the building represents.

I have a number of "28mm" scale buildings that may be considered to have different ground scales.

The Sarissa Survivor Shack is scaled so that the interior is part of the playing surface.


The Sarissa Small Terraced House is more like a feature in the landscape.


I have not used other scale buildings. I can see them being useful for smaller scales such as 15mm and smaller, especially when using multi-figure bases.

The Other Side seems to be using a slightly variable scale (one of the walkers has tiny crew figures).

[armchairgeneral]

I suppose it comes down to representation. I read an argument once about artillery limbers never being properly represented in Napoleonic games. One side of the argument went that since they were there, they should be represented. Another side went that a single model represents several guns, so the limber is assumed to be included in the base depth. Using a different scale might solve an issue like that.

So using small scale tents for a baggage area seems like a decent way to represent it.

For my AWI forces, I just have the limber towing the gun when the battery is moving. Once unlimbered and deployed, I simply remove and replace with a deployed gun model with the limber, as you say, assumed to incorporated in the base which for most rule sets scalewise occupies quite a considerable area.

I suppose I am fairly safe with tents as they vary in size considerably so 15mm tents would still look okay. But what about 40mm generals? 

Thanks for the comments so far.

[Cubs]

But what about 40mm generals? 

It wouldn't be my choice, I have to say. But if someone else wanted it as a display piece that stood out on the table, I'd probably make polite noises, whilst secretly being sickened by their blasphemy.

[tin shed gamer]

See I'm a lot more Yorkshire than Mr Paul (non of that Welsh politeness. A spade is a spade.) I'd stand there and say I don't get it ?(probably shrug my shoulders look bemused say Why? then wander off looking perplexed .As well )undoubtedly and quite intentionally causing offence on the way
It just reminds me of the old Workshop policy of changing scale by claiming things are made larger to represent its increased strength.
But scale compression is something I use for buildings The majority of my buildings are either scratch built or HO card railway buildings with a little rescaling of some detailing.Otherwise you can play havoc with the ranges of weapons in your chosen rule system.( suddenly a pistol can't reack across a terraced street,and so on.)
The knack with using scale compression is creating a relationship with the new scale. Your 15mm tents will look like 15mm tents unless theirs context. It can be a simple thing such as a 28mm fire pit and some 28mm item/'s propped up against the entrance.So it gives the impression of a 28mm pup tent rather than a 15mm eight man tent.
There's N guage ,HO,and 28mm all in the same space for my pulp and World War(1&2)games.

[tyrionhalfman]

If you’re just talking about getting an idea of distance and perspective, etc. by using different scales I can see the purpose and reasoning behind this. For example a dog fight in the skies above the trenches would be high enough up for the planes to appear smaller to the troops on the ground, so using 1:72 planes or even smaller compared to 28mm soldiers would work well. A smaller scale camp or fort at the top of a hill on the table edge purely as a scenery piece would also work to my mind as it would be representative of the distance and height from the lower level battlefield. Equally I’ve been pondering using smaller scale ships to be able to represent a sea engagement off the coast on the edge of the board while having 28mm figures battling it out on land.

The larger scales mixed in with smaller scales alongside one another such as the example of larger scale generals just wouldn’t look right for me though.

Just my two pence. Your game, game it your way

[arktos]

If you’re just talking about getting an idea of distance and perspective, etc. by using different scales I can see the purpose and reasoning behind this. For example a dog fight in the skies above the trenches would be high enough up for the planes to appear smaller to the troops on the ground, so using 1:72 planes or even smaller compared to 28mm soldiers would work well. A smaller scale camp or fort at the top of a hill on the table edge purely as a scenery piece would also work to my mind as it would be representative of the distance and height from the lower level battlefield. Equally I’ve been pondering using smaller scale ships to be able to represent a sea engagement off the coast on the edge of the board while having 28mm figures battling it out on land.

The larger scales mixed in with smaller scales alongside one another such as the example of larger scale generals just wouldn’t look right for me though.

Just my two pence. Your game, game it your way

I agree 100%

[Hobgoblin]

I'm starting to use different scales in the same game in Hordes of the Things. I've started basing my 15mm miniatures on 28mm bases, as the larger 'footprint' looks much more impressive. So a warband element actually looks like something that could be called a warband rather than three or four people.

This has the added advantage of allowing a lot of my 28mm HotT stuff to be used with the 15mm stuff. Behemoth, dragon and god elements fit right in: they just look more impressive (and some behemoths will probably be promoted to gods).

Meanwhile, I'm using large 28mm orcs as giants (on behemoth bases). But in 28mm games, those will also work as brute/"large warband" elements, using the club rule that someone's developed for ogres, bugbears and the like.

And I've also got quite a bit of 1/72 stuff. Things like the Caesar ratmen and the Dark Alliance orcs/goblins work with both scales. I'm basing them as warbands, but they'll work as hordes in 28mm games, either singly (the 10mm base deficit won't matter, given that anything that doesn't 'quick-kill' hordes will catch them in pursuit anyway) or doubled up to make the old horde base size.

And then some 28mm stuff - like the large Essex orcs I have based as blades in 28mm - can be doubled/tripled up to provide more behemoths.

The end result will be the opportunity to run vast games - perhaps six players, each with 36 AP, using stuff that's in different scales but compatible through basing and the elasticity of conceptions of fantasy creatures (Just how big is an ogre anyway? And how small is a goblin?)

[6milPhil]

I've seen 6mil using 2/3mil scenics, and seperately 10mil scenics.

[Elbows]

This is definitely a no-go for me.  Completely ruins any immersion,  unless it's A) a boardgame style wargame...using hexes and just representative miniatures, or B) aircraft, as they're in the sky and often just a place marker.  No reason for them to be in scale.

[fastolfrus]

Equally I’ve been pondering using smaller scale ships to be able to represent a sea engagement off the coast on the edge of the board while having 28mm figures battling it out on land.

I seem to remember a photo in a Featherstone book which featured a colonial landing party with gunboat in the background.

[Norm]

Not thought about it, but I could see value for those ancient type rules that use single based heroes etc, having them represented by the next scale up. It doesn't suit my tidy mind and is 'traditionally odd', but I quite like the idea of armies being personalised to their owner and this is purely a visual choice, not something that would likely harm the premise of the game rule / system.

[Doug ex-em4]

Back in the seventies when we played huge Napoleonic games as our main gaming activity, we tended to use 15mm "scale" buildings with the 25mm figures. Each figure represented 33 men as I recall so one 25mm building represented a hamlet - just didn’t look right. With the smaller scale buildings a hamlet looked more like it should do.

Thinking about it, the buildings may even have been smaller than 15mm, not sure now (it was a long time ago).

Doug