Desired current sci fi wargaming trends

[salcor]

Hello,

I was wondering recently what people are looking for in their sci fi wargames?  What scale do most people prefer? What size of army is best?  What are some of the best mechanics?  Do people prefer tourney ent style large scale wargames like 40k or are do you like smaller scale more cooperative games like Rangers of Shadow Fall?  I mean Games workshop is seeing a resurgence with their new take on 40k, kill team, necromunda, and black fortress; however smaller publishers are also doing well with games like This is not a test.  But at the same time other publishers like Warlord which has an excellent rule system in Gates of Antares is not making very good market penetratio  nor are great new games like Breachstorm. 

So I I will close with, what do people think makes a new game successful in today's market with so many games competing for your time and money?  What gets certain game back on your table again and again, and others thrown in the back of the closet?

Salcor

[mkultra99]

What's needed is a 'generic' sci-fi 'warband' size game. Forces should be customizable to match whatever miniatures you have. Focus on scenarios and not "fluff" as most people will fill that in anyway. It needs solid, interesting rules mechanisms. And, yes a "points" system. It needs to be physically published and available to retailers both B&M and online. Forget kickstarter.

Easy Peasy

[jetengine]

.  But at the same time other publishers like Warlord which has an excellent rule system in Gates of Antares is not making very good market penetratio  nor are great new games like Breachstorm. 

Well Gates of Antares was too damn slow. They had a big window to scoop up 40k players who were unhappy with 7th ed but didnt get their plastics or starter set out until 8th ed hit whixh got alot if people interested in 40k again. That and the rules are needlessly dense at times. As for breachstorm ? It just looks mediocre, it uses the same generic mass effect design that 80% of sci fi art and games use these days.

What's needed is a 'generic' sci-fi 'warband' size game. Forces should be customizable to match whatever miniatures you have. Focus on scenarios and not "fluff" as most people will fill that in anyway. It needs solid, interesting rules mechanisms. And, yes a "points" system. It needs to be physically published and available to retailers both B&M and online. Forget kickstarter.

Easy Peasy

This. Though I see gamers doing it themselves quite often lately. Dragon Rampant and Warlords of Erewhon both have fan made dci fi lists.

[AWu]

What's needed is a 'generic' sci-fi 'warband' size game. Forces should be customizable to match whatever miniatures you have. Focus on scenarios and not "fluff" as most people will fill that in anyway. It needs solid, interesting rules mechanisms. And, yes a "points" system. It needs to be physically published and available to retailers both B&M and online. Forget kickstarter.

Easy Peasy

Quoted for truth

Its has to be what Rogue Stars promised but failed to deliver.

We need Stargrave :>

[Elk101]

What's needed is a 'generic' sci-fi 'warband' size game. Forces should be customizable to match whatever miniatures you have. Focus on scenarios and not "fluff" as most people will fill that in anyway. It needs solid, interesting rules mechanisms. And, yes a "points" system. It needs to be physically published and available to retailers both B&M and online. Forget kickstarter.

Easy Peasy

That's exactly what I use Fistful of Lead: Galactic Heroes for. I can use my old 40k figures, my Pulp Sci-fi stuff, my Aliens and predators, etc. It's all there.

[CookAndrewB]

I, for one, would be appreciative of easy game mechanics, fast play, and character development that creates a moderate RPG type feel. I'm also grateful for a solid AI system. I typically play solo, and when I get to sucker (sweet talk?) my wife into playing with me I can't try to play a game and teach her some crunchy system that requires four tutorial games before something interesting happens.

Scale, I am starting to lean heavily towards 15mm. Entry point is easier on my wallet when I want to jump sideways. Skirmish level all the way down to single character would be my choice. I don't want to have a faceless army of hundreds when I can care about 1-5 characters. I can't imagine anything worse, for me, than something that looks like tournament play. Points are fine, but sometimes the good guys should be outnumbered and sometimes the good guys show up with overwhelming force to put down a minor annoyance. I don't need a system to tell me how to balance or write my scenarios, but I'm happy enough to take some feedback from the creator as to what a good unit looks like compared to a bad one. Maybe it is the D&D player in me that thinks "one guy vs a dragon? Sounds like an adventure!" 

[Hobgoblin]

I can't imagine anything worse, for me, than something that looks like tournament play. Points are fine, but sometimes the good guys should be outnumbered and sometimes the good guys show up with overwhelming force to put down a minor annoyance. I don't need a system to tell me how to balance or write my scenarios, but I'm happy enough to take some feedback from the creator as to what a good unit looks like compared to a bad one. Maybe it is the D&D player in me that thinks "one guy vs a dragon? Sounds like an adventure!" 

I very much agree with this! For me, points are most useful to unbalance an encounter.

I also agree with what others have said about 'fluff' being a waste of time. I don't think there's any point in most companies attempting to emulate GW in background and illustrations. The one area in which any company can compete is in well-designed rules.

The sci-fi games I play most are Mutants and Death Ray Guns (by far!) and FUBAR (which I really like too). I also (controversially?) really like Rogue Stars and have enjoyed every game I've played of it (my son used to say it was his favourite game). But I think Rogue Stars aims at emulating a very specific type of scenario - a really intense firefight in a relatively small area - which makes it a bit niche.

For any ruleset, the most important aspect for me is 'time to table'. That's where MDRG and FUBAR win every time. You can assign models to each player and more or less stat them up as you do so. For example, in MDRG, fierce-looking humanoids (orks, beastmen, reptilians) can have the mutant profile of Q4, C3, and less savage sorts can have the human profile of Q3, C2. Then all you need do is give each a leader and a champion,  add a roster of wandering monsters and play 'what you see is what you get' with weapons (is a bolter a sub-machine gun or an assault rifle? It's up to the commanding player).

[AWu]

I also (controversially?) really like Rogue Stars and have enjoyed every game I've played of it (my son used to say it was his favourite game). But I think Rogue Stars aims at emulating a very specific type of scenario - a really intense firefight in a relatively small area - which makes it a bit niche.

I liked test game we played. I think its OK system.
But mechanics are made unnecessary complicated (seriously, most of the traits just give +1 to +3 bonus to a test - why make them super complicated just to avoid saying +1 to test..) and difficult, and its just hard game to chew into.
It just fail to deliver excitement and be gaming friendly.

I can create Frostgrave Wizards and crews fir fun with paper and pencil and have interesting time without actual game play.
In RS its tiresome exercise in futility that always put me off.
And I like complicated rule sets  and have fun with creating Inquisitor retinues.

Thats why I asked for Stargrave.
Game with similar traits.
I am yet unable to find unfortunately.

[williamb]

That's exactly what I use Fistful of Lead: Galactic Heroes for. I can use my old 40k figures, my Pulp Sci-fi stuff, my Aliens and predators, etc. It's all there.

Same here.   

[snitcythedog]

What's needed is a 'generic' sci-fi 'warband' size game. Forces should be customizable to match whatever miniatures you have. Focus on scenarios and not "fluff" as most people will fill that in anyway. It needs solid, interesting rules mechanisms. And, yes a "points" system. It needs to be physically published and available to retailers both B&M and online. Forget kickstarter.
Easy Peasy

I would second this.  It would be great to see is a sci-fy skirmish system as simple and fun as Frostgrave with the options and depth that were present in Rouge Trader in terms of weapons/troop types and equipment.  I would second the scenarios over fluff sentiment.  Some fluff would be fine but as stated the "whole universe" is usually thrown out of the window. 

[mcfonz]

Quoted for truth

Its has to be what Rogue Stars promised but failed to deliver.

We need Stargrave :>

Please no.

Frostgrave is ok. It's fun to a degree but it isn't flexible enough to be more than a treasure grabbing wizard off. That's not to say I don't like it, I have enjoyed games of it, but it is no where near flexible enough. You want more scenarios not involving treasure grabbing to win.

If anything, I would say Saga is a better model.

But for me, you want to be able to field forces as few as 20 models perhaps in fire teams of 3-5 up to squads of 8-10 say.

Personally I also think we have arrived at a time when games don't have to be dictated by the limitations of a d6. Tabletop gaming is a popular and pretty mainstream past time and the old concept of using d6 because everyone has monopoly is a bit outdated now.

I'd push to d8 or d10 and allow for a lot more differentiation between troop types and weapons if desired.

One of the issues 40k now has is that whilst they have a vaster array of unit options and types to select from as well as equipment, most of the differentiation is how many dice you roll. It gets a bit tedious after a while. And the balance between combat and shooting is daft.

Back on point, focus on saga sized games but with the ability to have small units that can be played on smaller tables. Mass Battle stuff is more than catered for and I feel a bit of a dying breed in many ways.

Frostgrave, Saga, Mantic's Vanguard, Moonstone, Infinity and various other successful games in recent years have proven that the market for proper skirmish games is really thriving.

[Elbows]

All I can say...is make the game you want to play.  Then, after you've determined it works and most importantly it's fun (read: a lot of successful games simply aren't fun to me, ala Frostgrave) then consider how to massage it into something marketable.

[tabletop]

Rogue Stars almost itched the sci-fi skirmish system for me. What RS lacks I feel is a good flow. There's too much messing around with modifiers and tokens to track various states that often reduces the game to an exercise in mechanics. It desperately needs to be simplified.

What RS does have for me is a broad system for creating 'characters' for any sci-fi figure you own. This has always been Ganesha Games' strengths since Song of Blades and Heros v1 which I immensely enjoyed. However these two points seem to be in contradiction (can you have a streamlined game that lets you build a wide variety of characters)?

Funnily enough GW's latest Kill Team offering I quite enjoyed but can't get anybody to play locally. It had the 40k fluff, let you dabble in 40k without a second mortgage since you only needed a handful of figures and was generally an interesting, streamlined system with a few unique mechanics that made it feel nicely skirmishy. Of course being 40k it had the usual terrible problems with balance because it turns out Flamers were overpowered.

I wanted to love Frostgrave, but feel the core D20 system is far too swingy and makes every game feel like a frustrating crap shoot with your tactics meaning little. Their campaign rules were also awfully broken in our experience. Three-four games into a campaign and somebody invariably had an overpowered warband which meant people just lost interest.

[Dentatus]

I really thought Rogue Stars was going to be SoBH in Space.

To Elbow's point - I think you should make the game you want to play. Or tweak the game you like to fit your needs/until you enjoy it. You bought it - House Rule whatever you want. Same goes with your miniatures; use them in whatever game or setting you want. I'm in this to have fun with my friends. Not sign on as a fanboy-for life, or ferret out every loophole in order to win at any cost.

[Cat]

Off and on play over the last 42 years, Ogre is going strong and back on my gaming table a lot!

Buckets of new plastic models and beautiful neoprene gaming mats all rolling out of Kickstarter projects have relit the fire for this super classic from 1977.