*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 15, 2019, 02:14:16 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1349058
  • Total Topics: 95443
  • Online Today: 203
  • Online Ever: 1136
  • (July 19, 2019, 06:36:21 PM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: Civil war Reds in Grey?  (Read 942 times)

Offline trev

  • assistant
  • Posts: 27
Civil war Reds in Grey?
« on: June 17, 2019, 04:43:52 PM »
I've been busily painting some 28mm Copplestone Bolsheviks in a mix of colours but mostly standard Russian green.  The few figures with the later style tunics I have done in Grey tunics with the magenta tabs to match the 1922 Uniform. 



Now I'm thinking that pattern is the later 1920s look and I probably I should have done them Khaki, even for the Far Eastern Republic troops.




I've also done most of the Budenovka in grey too and I'm wondering if that was again the later post civil war uniform.  It's not the end of the world as I've seen all sorts on the web but before I varnish the next batch it might be worth changing those I can.  Are the Grey hats and tunics wrong for most of the civil war?

Thanks.

Offline Inkpaduta

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 668
Re: Civil war Reds in Grey?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2019, 06:32:12 PM »
I too am painting up some RCW figures and ponder the uniforms.
I can't give you exact information on the use of gray uniforms. I do
have some of my Red forces wearing gray.

Here are just some thoughts. First, how many people do you game with are going to know
what uniform colors are specific to the RCW? Meaning, sometimes I think we can get a little
obsessive with getting everything perfect when we wargame. It is a game meant to have fun.
Second, this is one chaotic and mixed up civil war. I doubt we can say for absolute certainty
what all the units were wearing and at what time. Did some Red units wear gray yes. Is gray an
appropriate color for the RCW, yes.

Offline cuprum

  • mastermind
  • Posts: 1999
  • The Orient - is a tricky!
    • Studio "Siberia"
Re: Civil war Reds in Grey?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2019, 03:55:48 AM »
You write correctly that the gray uniform appeared in 1922. At that time, the Civil War was already largely over. There were only some, relatively small clashes on the outskirts of the country. In addition, the country was ravaged during the continuous seven years of war and there was a shortage in everything, including fabric for uniforms. I know from memoirs that some red military units went to the parade in their underwear (long sleeves and white pants) - they joked that this was a tropical uniform))) They were  make uniforms out of everything that was suitable for such a purpose. In the white army in the south of Russia, I repeatedly met the mention that the uniform was sewn from sacks of flour.
In addition, a uniform with colored stripes on the chest generally appeared in the red army only in 1920 (budenovka - in 1919), and in small quantities. Until that moment there is no mention of its use in the army.

So the figures painted by you will be actual for 1920 if they have color strips on a breast and budenovkas.

Offline Nogbad

  • student
  • Posts: 11
Re: Civil war Reds in Grey?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2019, 06:42:27 PM »
It's always nice to feel you've got uniforms 'right', but when it comes to the Russian Civil War, you're on bit of a hiding to nothing.
Just look up the many group photos out there - obviously black and white but they show what a complete mishmash of uniforms, and uniform colours, were worn by soldiers who were even in the same unit. A lot of them look home-made or knocked up by a tailor whose knowledge of military outfitting looks distinctly shaky! Paint them how you like and you're unlikely to be that far wrong.

Offline cuprum

  • mastermind
  • Posts: 1999
  • The Orient - is a tricky!
    • Studio "Siberia"
Re: Civil war Reds in Grey?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2019, 01:20:38 AM »
This is not always true.
The same military unit at different times could look different. She could get a great uniform (Russian, British or some unusual - for example, ceremonial uniform of the Russian Imperial Army). After a few months of fighting and campaigns, the appearance of the military unit changed significantly - something of the clothing items fell into disrepair and was replaced by civilian clothes, uniforms from other sets and the like improvisations. Then, after some time, this military unit again received a uniform uniform. It is quite possible - another sample. And again, its appearance has changed over time. Due to significant problems with uniforms, military units often looked like partisans or ragged. By the way, such a state of affairs is generally characteristic of long-lasting wars in which there were problems with supplies.
Should we strive to reflect this situation in the figures on the table? This is a personal matter of taste of everyone.

Offline trev

  • assistant
  • Posts: 27
Re: Civil war Reds in Grey?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2019, 09:47:39 AM »
Thanks for the comments folks, that's very useful.  I don't think I can go for any great specific realism as I don't have the knowledge and the miniatures will no doubt get used for multiple theatres and campaigns, if not downright fantasy scenarios.  I really just wanted something generic that looks about right and avoids glaring errors where I can.  I suspect the Whites will end up being worse anyway and those pretty coloured uniforms will turn up all across Russia. :) 

I think I will do some specially for fighting in the snow eventually though.  The battle scenes from Admiral are too inspiring.





I added the 'elite' troops in Budenovkas for variety mostly and will get some of Curprum's and STPs miniatures to add more poses soon.  Only about 1 in 4 of my Reds have Budenovkas, so hopefully that's not too bad for 1919.  Of those only a handful have the tunic tabs and they are all officers, ensigns or LMG gunners.  I think I might change some of their grey tunics to a more khaki colour and repaint a few hats but nothing drastic.  I like the current ragged look and with single basing the variety lets me switch them around to distinguish various unit types if required.

Cheers for the inspiration in finally getting this one off the back burner to everyone here.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 09:50:35 AM by trev »

Offline cuprum

  • mastermind
  • Posts: 1999
  • The Orient - is a tricky!
    • Studio "Siberia"
Re: Civil war Reds in Grey?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2019, 02:59:30 PM »
Successes in creating interesting and beautiful armies)))
By the way, budenovka first appeared in the army that fought against Kolchak.  These caps for the first time had the 220th Infantry Regiment of the "Red Weavers". They fought in the division Chapaev.

http://siberia-miniatures.ru/article_info.php?articles_id=2

Offline Evans35

  • lurker
  • Posts: 1
Re: Civil war Reds in Grey?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 11:54:59 AM »
Maybe they are the uniforms left from the White Army :D