I don't like MDF buildings

[Codsticker]

I like MDF buildings but not for all applications. If I am after a fixed piece with good detail then I will pass on MDF and look for an equivalent in resin. If I am wargaming in and around the structure or want to modify a building then I will go with MDF or scratch build. My Mordheim table has plastic, MDF and scratch built buildings on it.

My Pulp Alley urban table is all MDF except for the plastic barn kit:

This structures on this table show the shortcomings of MDF the greatest; the Nissen hut looks funky; the Henderson Air Field hangar doesn't look too bad but isn't a completely true representation:

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Not to mention that wargaming buildings are usually ridiculously small relative to the size of the miniatures.

That's a problem for skirmish games, where the ratio men to miniatures is 1:1 and the scale of the terrain as proximate to the scale of the models as possible.

In games where the terrain scale is already distorted, the size of the buildings is less relevant than their footprint.

[Captain Blood]

If you don't like them, I still don't see why this is an issue - no one is forcing you to buy them.

This is a forum about wargaming and discussion things about wargaming. I simply stated my feelings about MDF and asked if others felt the same way. I have found the responses interesting.

...is the point.

It's getting a bit depressing that any time anyone opens a topic here that's remotely critical of any product or category of product, they get hit with 'well if you don't like it, don't buy it' - which feels like a way of trying to just shut down the discussion. (Along with its close cousin 'well if you don't like this thread, don't read it').

As Inkpaduta says, LAF is a wargames forum. Discussion of wargames-related topics is partly what most people are here for, including different opinions on different products and category of product. Considered criticism / devoted support for particular wargames products is perfectly legitimate within the rules of the forum provided it's polite, proportionate and considered.

This structures on this table show the shortcomings of MDF the greatest; the Nissen hut looks funky; the Henderson Air Field hangar doesn't look too bad but isn't a completely true representation:

Those both work extremely well to my eye. Looks fabulous. The groundwork too.
As I said, I think for representing certain structures and materials, MDF is great. But there are just some forms and building materials it's poor at representing. To me anyway 

[Rich H]

Given all our infantry have 5ft circles attached to their feet, I'm happy that the overall effect is good, the detail... meh.

I think the point for me is that MDF in it's most basic form is equivalent to playing with unpainted models - it's better than no game but could be improved upon without much effort. 

Some people are happy with unpainted/raw MDF, some 3 colours and based, some 3ft/good enough, some only happy with true artistry.  Me I'm somewhere between 3 colours and 3ft for minis and terrain.  I do get carried away with some individual items but I always struggle to tie everything together (and I struggle with storage space....)

[Arrigo]

I like MDF buildings but not for all applications. If I am after a fixed piece with good detail then I will pass on MDF and look for an equivalent in resin. If I am wargaming in and around the structure or want to modify a building then I will go with MDF or scratch build. My Mordheim table has plastic, MDF and scratch built buildings on it.

My Pulp Alley urban table is all MDF except for the plastic barn kit:

This structures on this table show the shortcomings of MDF the greatest; the Nissen hut looks funky; the Henderson Air Field hangar doesn't look too bad but isn't a completely true representation:

I think plenty of us will be happy with these 3 tables, even the one you say it shows the limit of MDF... to me is fabulous, yes it is not a perfect Henderson Field Hangar (but some were ramshackle temporary structure anyway... and certainly after Kurita-san made his visit...

[Dr. The Viking]

I don't really understand how you can rule out an entire material like that.

I dislike many of the current offerings in mdf.  Especially when you combine it with printed stuff to cover the sides... the combination of the two is a complete abomination to me.

But I think nice stuff can be made with it too.  It works really well for the Old West setting I think.

[Lost Egg]

I think its like anything...MDF terrain can be good but for the right job. Having said that I'm not really a fan as they always look a bit flat...I much prefer using foamboard and going DIY but maybe thats just because I grew up on the old White Dwarf Modelling Workshop articles.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Truth be told, MDF is not great, but it serves its purpose for those of us that have less than impressive modelistic skills. I've tried to design my own buildings. The experience was as painful as the results were disgusting. MDFs look better than the monstrosities that I produced; even unpainted!

I can use resin buildings, of course. However, resins are expensive and shipment costs are higher than with MDFs.

Bottom line is that MDFs are, for me, a great alternative.

[Shahbahraz]

Could you expand upon that by any chance?

We've quite a few pre-painted buildings that customers think look great "straight out of the box" - I would be interested to hear why you think that that isn't really possible?

There are manufacturers producing pre-painted MDF, that gets whacked on a table, and still has visible tabs in roofs, unrealistic colours, unnatural straight lines and players will say 'that looks great' - well, I am not the world's most skilled modeller or painter, but I do at least try -

[grant]

MDF buildings smell bad.

Even the prepainted ones look bad with all the unpainted bits.

I too am not a fan of them.

Add to that the cost - they’re not cheap, making them a less appealing option than building my own. 

[mcfonz]

To be honest, whilst I agree with Cpt. Blood I do also think that objectivity is sometimes a bit lacking.

MDF terrain, and in some cases more (vehicles), holds an important part in wargaming.

Now, you can go down the detail route, but personally, I find that futile. Very, very, very few things about wargaming is ever precise about detail as much as you would want to be. When you consider that in 28mm a 6x4 isn't much bigger than a couple of football pitches and yet games are played with a platoon and a couple of tanks and air support etc. Reality is a squad or two is realistic.

So it's about the details.

MDF, like resin, has a low end and a top end. The more you pay, typically the better the product. On one end of the scale you have the likes of Nights of Dice who use different thicknesses of materials to help detail and pull the pieces away from the samey dimensions. The prepainted stuff is the same. You have some like the four ground stuff which has it's place in the hobby but is perhaps a bit flat looking - perhaps because on fantasy/historical you need more variations of colour on them? But then you have Antenocity for which it suits the smooth, flat colours of sci fi buildings etc.

As others have pointed out, the cheaper end of the MDF market provides great structures to add to.

One of the most interesting concepts I have seen are from 6milphil and Fenris which surprises me that no one else has taken inspiration and that is resin facades and detailing for mdf carcasses. You save on the amount of resin, reducing the weight of the structure and also enable internal use of the building without having to use a complicated mould. It also means it can be packed relatively flat for posting. One carcass can be turned into a number of different buildings.

So for me it firmly has it's place.

And I do sort of get where some people are coming from. We don't all have the time, skills or inclination to build our own or perhaps feel we can do a finely detailed resin building justice. A simple MDF building may be the solution.

And overall, MDF buildings ARE cheaper than their equivalent in resin.

Lets have a little look.

£20 in plain unpainted resin for that dark ages building.

Smaller and is called an outhouse but can pass as a small dwelling - £5.00

10.96 Euros which I think is around £8.00

Now, your preference may well be for the grand manner piece which is very nice. But the other two still have their place. You can buy two of the zen terrain pieces for the same price. If you want to add detail to them yourself you can.

Each to their own. I like MDF. It certain and undoubtedly has it's uses.




For this sort of thing it adds a level of strength you just couldn't get for cardboard or foamboard and durability that even resin couldn't handle in the same way.

[Elbows]

My issue with the thread is the way it was presented.

I've been doing forums (like most people here) for 20+ years.  I've never felt the need to post a thread about something I didn't like.  Even to see if other people agreed.  I don't think that's constructive at all.  It just starts off with a bias and is aimed for a feedback-loop of negativity.

Why not a thread about alternatives to MDF buildings?  Or a simpler "What are your opinions on MDF as a gaming material?" etc.  Even if the OP already has an opinion or bias in the discussion, it doesn't need to be presented that way.  Comes off as a waste of time to me.

I hold Lead Adventure as the high-water mark for wargame hobbying, but it makes me cringe to watch some of the world-class level modelers here disparage a product which obviously was never intended for them.  That's akin to a world class painter complaining about the quality of a $10 starter paint set from a hobby store (complete with white plastic paint brushes).

I see enough complaint threads on other forums and would rather LA didn't head in that direction.  I'd much rather read a thread about something you like and endorse...rather than just a thread of whinging about a product you don't need to purchase.  Doesn't seem useful to the forum.

[Codsticker]

My issue with the thread is the way it was presented.

Isn't that true of wargames fora though? I think it is more common to see a thread titled "I Don't Like ____" or "Worst _____ Evar!" . It would be nice to see more "OMG! I Love ____ So Much I Want To Marry It!" threads  . If going by the title alone I could see how this thread may have gone downhill very fast, however, I don't feel that Inkpaduta and those that have agreed with him haven't taken issue with those of us that expressed a contrary opinion.

[Inkpaduta]

Codsticker,

You are right. I have no problem if people like MDF. For me, they haven't worked well so I was wondering what others thought.
I think it has been a good discussion that is now on its fourth page, so I guess most people must agree with that.

[Rich H]

I think that this thread - while slightly against the grain - has produced some very interesting debate all the same.