Italy vs USA WWII

[10thMountain]

Hello,
      Looking for engagements in North Africa or Italy where Italians fought US troops? Has anyone gamed campaigns in 28mm relating to the above?

[dbsubashi]

I would look at Operation Husky. The Americans fought Italians at several points on Sicily, and were almost pushed into the ocean by them. Husky is often overlooked, but for us gamers, it offers multitudes. Between the Allies, you have every troop a gamer could want, Commandos, Royal Marines, Airborne, Tank regiments, Glider troops, motorized infantry, foot infantry and Rangers. The Axis side has both German and Italian troops again of all types and experience, with paratroops for both, panzer grenadiers, and even a Tiger battalion. The Italians range from 5th rate defensive installation troops to tank units equipped with early French tanks to well led troops who held up British paratroopers at 2 different bridges, one of them for days.

[italwars]

Concerning Sicily, Dsubashi had given you very useful suggestions and ideas...I confirm everything ..may I add that, contrary to popular belief , some bad equipped , almost untrained , static coastal defense units manning the bunkers on the beaches fought so well that , in one occasion that official history carefully avoid to mention, they were assassinated by their amazed and enraged US captors once they had surrender. Probably one of the Less known war crimes comitted even by the Allies.
Saďd that have a look at this well researched scenario staged by some members of an Italian wargame club..i gamed few years ago and
 found it enjoyable:
https://s5908effe8a9c5672.jimcontent.com/download/version/1507602069/module/1480266616/name/Gela%2010%20July%201943%20v%202.pdf

In the next days I’ll find another scenario that I remember having seen
 on line with Italian armour and bersaglieri against US troops In Tunisia.

Speaking about Italians don’t forget those who fougt until the end, the RSI troops.. you can also stage a fight with Italians vs US at Anzio front , near Rome, when the Allies landed in an almost undefedend small port, only to be bogged down there until spring..the Germans were quick to reinforce the defensive front sending, among others , small but very efficient Units of the Italian paratroops of Nembo, the naval commandos of X Mas Division and the well motivated but hastily trained and ill equipped Italian SS Division ..they successfully fought against US special service troops and in one occasion the X Mas Naval Commandos repulsed with panzerfaust and hand grenades a btg  size attack supported by Sherman tanks (battle of Idroscalo)

The very last battles for Rome, very small ones in fact, where fought by Italians alone ..at Castel di Decima a few companies of paratroops from Nembo together with some blue clad “battaglione azzurro” of the Air Force and with one Immobilised Panzer IV without anymore fuel Repulsed from almost a day the first Allied armoured scouting column toward Rome. And, after one or two days two Camionetta Desertica SPA of the Italian Colonial Police (PAI) famous for wearing even in Rome their sun helmets and their flamboyant kaki sand uniform and manning a Breda 20mm and maybe even  a 47mm gun attacked in a suicidal action the first US tanks reaching the center of Eternal City  near Colyseum..they were immediately destroyed ..



in 1944-45 Italian RSI troops Defending the Gothic Line (Bersaglieri , Alpini and San Marco Marines) remained undefeated ..Guided by local “partisans” , Brasilian troops and US “all blacks” 92 Division GIs tried,in order to avoid the German Mountain troops defending the Apuan Alps , to attack, among the snow,  the supposed to be weak sector of the Gothic Line defended by Italians but had the bad luck to find those above mentioned bersaglieri and the élite Alpini of the “Monterosa” ....

Further north , in 1945, in one Of the last  armoured clashes of the Italian Campaign
few RSI Italian M13/42 tanks  belonging to the paramilitary Guardia Nazionale Republicana supported by a few Italian SS  successfully countered  a US Armour  probe toward the PO river valley
All those above mentioned actions are very small so should be  easy to translate in wargame therms .
If interested I can help you With sources, uniform plates ecc. About those less known Italian forces and history

[italwars]

Italian X MAS Commando at Anzio  stands in front of
what is probably a hit and immobilized  US AFV and Bersaglieri attacking supported by Italian (French captured R35) tank at the battle of Gela Vs US Rangers

[italwars]

[quote author=italwars link=topic=126365.msg

The very last battle for Roma between Italians and US troops maybe another small skirmish idea
Picts of one of the two Viberti destroyed and inspected by civilians and a GI the day after

[Eclaireur]

Some interesting stuff here guys 
Italwars - I like the look of that R35, the markings etc. Does that picture portray Italian units in the Gela action or elsewhere?
I'm curious also as to what you think about uniform for the Sicily campaign. You see sources saying the Coastal Defence troops had adrian helmets and old uniforms. I'm sure it's hard to generalise but do you think they would have worn the tropical or desert types of uniform or the grey-green standard uniform?
EC

[Keith]

My assumption (for what it's worth) is that the Italian 206th Coastal Division were mainly dressed in the 'temperate' uniform rather than tropical. Having said that they were such a low grade unit that a mix is entirely probable especially as the campaign in Sicily progressed.

Some Italian equipment captured during the invasion is in the Maltese military museum now (Fort Elmo) and a lot of that seems to have been in the standard green too although hard to tell if thats the result of repainting post war even at first hand inspection. This includes the first artillery piece captured during the landings apparently.

This picture below is quite well known and shows prisioners from the 206th in what looks to be largely 'mainland' uniforms with Adrian helmets. Even then it looks like at least one of these men is perhaps wearing a lighter shirt which I would assume was tropical issue?

I imagine other units that were more mobile could have shown quite a variety of uniforms (which was also the case in Africa). It's certainly a more interesting way to paint them :-)

[Eclaireur]

nice one Keith, thanks!

[italwars]

Some interesting stuff here guys 
Italwars - I like the look of that R35, the markings etc. Does that picture portray Italian units in the Gela action or elsewhere?
I'm curious also as to what you think about uniform for the Sicily campaign. You see sources saying the Coastal Defence troops had adrian helmets and old uniforms. I'm sure it's hard to generalise but do you think they would have worn the tropical or desert types of uniform or the grey-green standard uniform?
EC

Yes the picture is from a well known military artist, Parducci, and depicts the battle of Gela..with the  dismounted Bersaglieri Motorcycle company supported by R35 tanks repainted in grey green and with Italian Insigna  leading the attack against US Derby's Rangers positions

from what i imagine a from various picts probably the Italian units in Sicily wore grey green..maybe some officers had custom made kaki pieces of uniform but those units fighting in Sicily did'nt belong from African/Tunisia major units and were'nt provided with tropical dress which was a quite fashionable peculariaty of the various African expedionary units...even the picts from the fights in Rome, Vs the Germans, after the "changing of side" of 8th september show units in brand new grey green..including better trained units like the Grenadiers...and i can assure you that beginning of september in Rome is very hot...if you can find them, a solution could be to field some grey green Italian in grey green (more faded grey) shirt sleeves order...in Sicily only the coastal divisions were equipped with Adrian helmets..the mobile units, bersaglieri ecc...standard Italian WW2 helmet..in a few family picts that i find in an old family house in the South of Italy i saw some soldiers and officers that had retired from Sicily and had been hosted by my grandfather family...they were all in grey green with men in rag tag uniform , bustina ecc..the officers had custom made lighter uniforms..probably a shade of grey green with a bluyesh nuance..they even abandoned some pieces of uniforms, including a knapsack and a grey green overcoat that should still be , eroded by moths, in my country house in the south cellar...i'll certainly aavoid to touch it 

[Eclaireur]

Some lovely details in there Italwars - you have obviously lived with this history and folk memory. Thank you for sharing
EC