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Author Topic: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam  (Read 4976 times)

Offline Blind Templar

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 34
VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« on: July 26, 2019, 03:57:15 AM »
Hello, a working group from the Bolt Action Vietnam FB page has been working on an up to date conversion rule set to represent the Vietnam war.

https://vconthetrail.wordpress.com/

At the moment we have approached it from a generic point of view so that later we can work in specific theaters and scenarios.

Follow this page as we continue to expand the rules. Current version 1.5

Offline carlos marighela

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10758
  • Flamenguista atι morrer.
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2019, 07:48:53 AM »
Interesting....

I know it’s an attempt to bolt on a period to an existing game system and that system is itself based on a fantasy football type point system but has anyone actually done any research on squad and platoon organisations? I just had a look at the Australian section and it’s pure fantasy. Might be worth your while revisiting the organisation part before cracking on. Many gamers might expect there to be some basis in reality.
Em dezembro de '81
Botou os ingleses na roda
3 a 0 no Liverpool
Ficou marcado na histσria
E no Rio nγo tem outro igual
Sσ o Flamengo ι campeγo mundial
E agora seu povo
Pede o mundo de novo

Offline Blind Templar

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 34
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2019, 08:10:20 AM »
Thanks Carlos, we have tried to keep it as generic as possible (for now) so that we have something to keep points and rules accurate before we dive deep into the historical context. We do realise we are missing alot and enjoy the community aspect behind what we are doing so if you have ideas please put them through the site as we need all the help.we can get :) and thank you again

Offline Blind Templar

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 34
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 06:07:38 AM »
Hello, we have released version 1.6

https://vconthetrail.wordpress.com/download/

Good morning Vietnam!
For the last month or so there has been an online community effort to produce a new Bolt Action supplement for the Vietnam War, VC on the Trail.
Today we have a new release for you - Version 1.6. Here's a list of updates from 1.5:
•   RTOs added
•   Forward Spotter added
•   Squad Radio added
•   VC Cell Unit added
•   Local Popular Forces unit added
•   Combat Teams added
•   Degar Guerrilla unit added
•   National police added
•   Forward Observer team added
•   Forward Observer rule removed from command team
•   Grenade Launcher changes
•   Transport Helicopter changes
•   Self-propelled artillery added
•   Warplanes added
•   SU-100 added
•   M50 Ontos added
•   M56 Scorpion added
•   Type 63 AA added
•   Gun Trucks added
•   National rules added
•   Scenarios “lite” added
•   Weapon Reference Table added
Please visit our website to be kept up to date with our future content.
Website: http://vconthetrailwordpress.com
Download: https://vconthetrail.wordpress.com/download/
Roadmap: https://vconthetrail.wordpress.com/category/roadmap/
Make a suggestion: https://vconthetrail.wordpress.com/make-a-suggestion/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VContheTrail
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/vconthetrail/
This rule set is very much a work in progress and community based effort. The intent is to build this into a proper campaign supplement comprising of unit outlines from all the major nations, custom scenarios and a little bit of historical context. We are looking for help in all these aspects so if you want to get involved please let us know! We're looking for people to contribute by:
• Play testing the rules and giving us feedback.
• Offering suggestions for units & special rules.
• Writing Custom Scenarios.
• Provide photos of painted minis on the tabletop.
• Proof reading the document.
• Historical context. If you have expertise in the conflict and a little talent in writing, we’d love to have to preface the document with a history of the war.

Offline NickNascati

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2187
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2019, 01:40:47 AM »
Before you attempt to modify wwii rules, take a look at the second edition of FNG from Two Hour Wargames.  Darby Eccles has presented a real labor of love to capture the essence of the Vietnam war.

Offline NurgleHH

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • *
  • Posts: 3496
  • Spacelord
    • Victory Decision Vietnam
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2019, 06:57:35 PM »
Before you attempt to modify wwii rules, take a look at the second edition of FNG from Two Hour Wargames.  Darby Eccles has presented a real labor of love to capture the essence of the Vietnam war.
I played both. FNG is too slow, but the campaign ideas are great. Bolt action is really to WW2 for Vietnam, but easy for fast games. I am still looking for a good system with best of both games...
Victory Decision Vietnam here: leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=43264.0

Victory Decision Spacelords here: leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=68939.0

My pictures: http://pictures.dirknet.de/

Offline Blind Templar

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 34
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2019, 08:13:37 AM »
 thanks guys, we are starting with using as much of the standard BA stuff so we can keep the game as even as possible to begin with and we are already up to 50 pages without getting in to the scenarios and specific mechanics. We are planing to release continously and go to several volumes if need be.

Offline grant

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4167
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2019, 04:58:46 AM »
Can the medic use the .50 from the M113?


Bolt Action is a farce
It’s a beautiful thing, the destruction of words - Orwell, 1984

Offline Poiter50

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3562
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2019, 09:07:02 AM »
 lol lol lol

Can the medic use the .50 from the M113?


Bolt Action is a farce
Cheers,
Poiter50

Offline Splod

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 676
  • Flittering from one project to another
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2019, 10:22:14 AM »
Bolt Action is a farce

Well now, I wouldn't say that. Not a system I enjoy playing? Sure. A tabletop game with the emphasis on tournament play and a focus on evenly matched sides? Yep. A good representation of combat on the tabletop? Hell, no.

But it got people playing historicals in gamestores that have been dominated by 40k. So it can't be all bad?

OP, good work on putting this together. It looks a real labour of love although it's unlikely to usurp Chain of Command for my Vietnam games.

Offline Blind Templar

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 34
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2020, 03:21:39 AM »
thanks guys, we have just released 1.61

Website: https://vconthetrail.wordpress.com

Download: https://vconthetrail.wordpress.com/download/

Make a suggestion: https://vconthetrail.wordpress.com/make-a-suggestion/

Here's a list of updates from 1.6:
• Cold War Advisor wording updated
• Transport Helicopter wording updated
• All allied Infantry unit’s grenadier option updated
• All Scout and Tank support points and ratings updated
• M114 added
• Recce option added to M551 Sheridan updated
• Flak added to M163 updated
• ARVN Command Team wording updated
• M8 added
• M42 for ARVN added
• ANZAC SMG’s in infantry units updated
• L5 Pack added
• M113 LRV added
• M113 FSV wording updated
• M125 for ANZAC added
• M113 T50/T72 added
• Allied and Red Air Support as single entries added
• Allied Air Support Fighter Bombers updated
• VC Cart capacity updated
• CH-46 Sea Knight added
• 9K11 Malyutka Team added
• Supa Bazooka Team for US added
• BGM-71 TOW Team for added

Offline AdmiralAndy

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 203
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2020, 01:03:49 PM »
There was a Bolt Action, vietnam adaption in Wargames Soldiers and Strategy magazine issue 65 maybe worth checking out.

Offline Shipka

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1779
    • RussoTurkishWar1877
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2020, 11:48:44 AM »
The problem as I see it, is that most gamers want to play a balanced force within a time constraint......both do not relate to real time games and the actuality that rarely were both sides balanced....this is certainly the case in Vietnam

Offline Lord Raglan

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Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2021, 11:38:28 PM »
thanks guys, we have just released 1.61

Brilliant, thanks for all the hard work boys!!

Offline carlos marighela

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10758
  • Flamenguista atι morrer.
Re: VC On The Trail - A Bolt Action Conversion for Vietnam
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2021, 03:23:02 AM »
There's still quite a few historical clangers/ fantasy football stuff there.

The Australian Army in Vietnam did not employ snipers. They didn't exist in a doctrinal sense nor was there the necessary materiel provided. They didn't become part of the battalion organisation until the mid/late '70s, around the time the Parker Hale was introduced.

SFMG/ DF Weapons platoons weren't a feature either in Vietnam, they simply did not exist at that time. IIRC the C2 sighting units weren't in inventory for the M60 until the SFMG platoon was established in the late '70s/early '80s. As such there's really not much justification for medium machine guns, which is typically associated with a weapon mounted on a tripod with associated sighting systems, sights/ clinometer, aiming stakes and support.

A number of M2 .50 cal machine guns were horse traded with the Yanks at the start of the Task Force deployment in 1966. They were essentially the only 'heavy' machineguns available and were solely and wholly allocated to static TF base defence.

Engineer squads/sections? Well sections existed as part of the field and construction squadrons within 1 ATF but would rarely be deployed as such save for a specific engineering task, they were simply too valuable.

Far more common was the splinter team or mini team, consisting of 1 RAE NCO and an OR. These accompanied infantry companies in the field. Splinter teams were designed to carry out minor fold engineering tasks like tunnel clearance. Mini teams were splinter teams equipped with mine detection gear, flak jackets and helmets and used to combat mines and IEDs.

Recce squad? Not sure where this comes from. 5 RAR converted its Anti- Tank platoon into a recce platoon but that was pretty much a one off. Because there was competition to get into it the recce platoon was smaller than standard rifle platoons.

Heavy mortars? If we mean larger than 81mm then about the only time Australians would have had access to 4.2" mortars would have been during 1 RAR's attachment to 173 Airborne Brigade in 1965 or whilst operating under US control in some later operation. 1 ATF contained no 4.2" mortars and the attached US support element at Nui Dat were 155mm M109 SPGs. For what it's worth later in the war, Australia did lease a half battery element of M108 SPGs which operated under the command of 3 Cav IIRC.

You have separate listing for a light howitzer team and the L5 pack howitzer, which is described as 'medium'. Leaving aside a mortar location battery the RAA only fielded the L5 and the M101 105mm howitzers. Functionally the same, albeit the M101 was more robust and the L5 easier to transport. Not sure why there are two listings? The only other gun fielded was  the above mentioned and limited use of M108s.

All other indirect fire support was US supplied. That ranged from the 155mm SPG battery allocated and under control of 1 ATF as well as occasional attachments of weapons through to 8 " howitzers (employed on a number of occasions). There was, on occasion and when troops were operating along the coastal fringe of the Task Force AO, utilisation of naval gunfire support, principally 5" from destroyers off shore. HMAS Hobart performed this task for 1 ATF on one occasion. There were Vietnamese 105 batteries spread around the province, usually in parcels of one or two guns but these weren't under operational control of 1 ATF and were in fact more of a danger than an aid, with at least one  friendly fire incident.

FSV's saw very, very limited use. About 3 months worth in 1971 and even then almost wholly and solely as either convoy escort or base defence.

At the risk of being a bit rivet countery, the Australian Army didn't use 'Beehive' rounds. the canister type rounds were 'Splintex'. Beehive is/ was a shaped demolition charge.

Unaware of Australian units ever receiving helicopter support from H-19s which had been largely phased out of US operational service by 1965 or H-34s for that matter. You've missed the UH-1H Bushranger gunship but as that's pretty much functionally the same as a US Huey gunship, albeit somewhat more heavily armed, it's no biggy.

Not sure why there would be an F-14 available as air support, they didn't come into service until after the Vietnam War. It's true that they were deployed as air cover in a purely fighter role as part of the US evacuation of Saigon in 1975 but all Australian troops were well gone by then. At the other end of the equation I can't understand why there would be animal transport available. there were no pack trains with 1 ATF or any supporting force.

As a general note, the word squad is not typically used in the Australian Army at least when describing sub-units.  Sections or troops are the smallest sub-units. I thought this might have just been a naming convention used by the rules but I notice that the VC are described as sections. Not a biggy but irritating.

I assume the NVA section is meant to cover up to 1975? Even so, there's little if any evidence of BTR-60s being used prior to 1979 and most likely not until later in the counter insurgency war in Cambodia. SU-122 has no real historical basis as far as I can tell and there's no real evidence of SU-100s or SU-76 being used in action at any point in time.

For what it's worth the M114 was never used by the US in Vietnam. It's only and very brief usage was with the ARVN circa 1963/64 where it quickly proved itself unsuitable.

Hope some of that helps.