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Author Topic: Sidi Rezegh using BKC 4 leads to questions of scale and spectacle  (Read 900 times)

Offline olicana

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How many units is too many?

Is game more important than spectacle when it comes to numbers?

These are questions I'm asking myself midway through a re-fight of the battle at Sidi Rezegh on 22nd November 1941.



The quality of the figures in play isn't in question, I don't think - though I say it myself, for 15 mm, they are pretty good. I'm not talking that kind of eye candy, I'm talking about the spectacle that large numbers alone bring to a table but invariably slow down game turns to a snails pace.

I'm currently playing at a scale of about 1:5, which means 15th Panzer looks like this



The game looks great; the rules are great; the number of units means the game turns are taking an hour each to play through - that's too long by half.

Should I play this scenario with half the number of units (currently 112 units in play). Should I play all of my battles at that level? Should I downsize my formations to 1:10 and I sell some of the collection?



More musings and pics here:





« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 02:55:46 PM by olicana »

Offline robh

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Re: Sidi Rezegh using BKC 4 leads to questions of scale and spectacle
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2020, 04:15:48 PM »
Using those rules for that size of game I think you have to accept long turn length, it is what it is.

It does have the look of a "Rapid Fire" parking lot and for anything larger than a 1/300 scale game I think there are too many vehicles on that table. (I don't actually see that you could play the whole battle with BKC4 in that space)
To game Sidi Rezegh in that space with 15mm I would suggest looking at something like Panzer Korps for rules.

Under those rules (1 vehicle base per company) the same force would be:
KG, 15th  Panzer Division                
1x Division HQ Stand   

8th Panzer Regt:
1st  Bn with: 2x PzIIIH Tank Co’s, 1x PzIIF Tank Co.
2nd Bn with: 2x PzIIIG tank Co’s, 1xPzIIF Tank Co.     
      (Attach to either Bn: 1x PzIVE Tank Co.)
115th Schutzen Regt:
1x Rifle (SPW) Co., 2x Rifle Co’s w/1x 37mm AT Co., 1x MMG Co.  (Trucks)
33rd  Artillery Regt:
2x 105mm Howitzer Co’s, 1x 150mm Howitzer Co’s w/1x 105mm Howitzer Co. (Towed)
 
15th KG Attachments
1x FO           
1x Sdkfz 10/4 20mm SPAA Co. 
1x MP Co.   
1x Engineer [Satchels] Co.

With 21st Panzer being slightly larger and the Ariete Div about the same.

Visually less of a spectacle but tactically a much better wargame.

Offline BillK

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Re: Sidi Rezegh using BKC 4 leads to questions of scale and spectacle
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2020, 08:24:43 PM »
Your stuff looks great and fewer numbers by half won't change that. The "game play" far exceeds the "large spectacle" aspect of any game players are involved in. Nothing worse than waiting forever to have your turn no matter how good things look.


Offline Hamilkar

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Re: Sidi Rezegh using BKC 4 leads to questions of scale and spectacle
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2020, 10:58:50 PM »
First, great looking board and figures!!!

Second, my thoughts on your questions:

How many units is too many? That depends entirely on what you enjoy and are trying to accomplish.  I've played games where we had over 10,000 Adler Napoleonics on the table and a turn took two hours.  It was fun at the time, but the setup and break down is just as time consuming.

Is game more important than spectacle when it comes to numbers?  Again, depends on what you want to accomplish.  If the one hour turns aren't a problem, then you are golden. If playing the game within one day is important, then I would think you need fewer units.

Should I play this scenario with half the number of units (currently 112 units in play). Should I play all of my battles at that level? Should I downsize my formations to 1:10 and I sell some of the collection?

If you want to play the game in a shorter period of time, you will absolutely have to downsize.  Should you?  Not unless you have a desire for the shorter game.  I think you could try a half-sized game and see how it goes.  BUT, if you decide to sell your collection, PM me!!!!!   :)

Offline RichBliss

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Re: Sidi Rezegh using BKC 4 leads to questions of scale and spectacle
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2020, 08:46:22 PM »
How many players do you have?  At a 1:5 ratio, a player should command a battalion (+ or -).  If they’re pushing more than that, then the game will bog down and/or the players will have more control than their historical counterparts.  If you don’t have enough players, either play a section of Sidi Resegh or use a different set of rules at 1:15 and each player commands a regiment/brigade
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 09:51:20 PM by RichBliss »

Offline SteveBurt

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Re: Sidi Rezegh using BKC 4 leads to questions of scale and spectacle
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2020, 10:10:07 AM »
I'd think that for a battle of that size 'Rommel' would be a better fit than BKC. An hour a turn doesn't seem too bad considering how many figures you have on the table.