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Author Topic: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?  (Read 1534 times)

Offline OB

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Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« on: April 30, 2020, 04:22:46 PM »
With the advent of Field of Battle 3 I though I'd do Montrose's Royalist Army in 15mm.  I pretty much have the figures I need and already have the Covenanters done.  Although the latter could probably do with repainting. I'll likely set about it one unit at a time so I can still game with what I've got.

I used to be pretty up to date with the research on Montrose's Irish troops.  That is to say they were regulars with no pike and no shortage of ammunition either.  I wondered if any new information has come to light?

Offline SJWi

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2020, 09:17:11 PM »
Hi, I don't know when you stopped researching but "Famous by My Sword" by Charles Singleton and published by Helion is pretty good. A tad slim at 72 pages but worth a read.

Offline OB

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2020, 10:21:09 PM »
Thanks SJWi.  Yes, I bought that one too.  If that's the latest I'm up to date. 

Offline Baron von Wreckedoften

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2020, 10:42:42 AM »
I thought that Montrose's Irish had shortened pikes - can you enlighten me?
No plan survives first contact with the dice.

Offline OB

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2020, 04:58:38 PM »
I cannot recall any contemporary account of them using pikes in battle.  Also they had ample opportunity to re equip with pikes post combat on the battle field and they don't seem to have done so.

If they had favoured pikes I'd have thought they would us full length ones like the Army of Ulster.  They were mainly Ulster Gaels.  Shorter pikes were a real disadvantage in push of pike.

Also their commander Mac Colla was a tactical innovator.  Had he thought they needed pikes we would have read of it in contemporary accounts of them in action.

Offline Sandinista

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2020, 12:06:03 AM »
My reading of "Famous by my Sword" gives the impression of Irish regiments armed with pike and musket. The cover artwork shows the Irish Brigade with pike and shot, if the author did not support this view I very much doubt he would have used the picture. Also used as plate D, plate F shows an Irish pikeman in Scottish dress.

Offline OB

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2020, 01:21:49 AM »
Yes it does and presumably the author liked the artwork.  There isn't any evidence for it that I can find.

The author's view of the battle of Kilsyth doesn't tally with what the eye witnesses said either.  To be specific General Baillie said his regiments were broken by the Highlanders rather than by an assault by the Irish regulars or cavalry.

Nor for that matter would I have much confidence in the head gear sported by many of the Irish soldiers pictured.

I buy a fair amount of Hellion books with no regrets but that one doesn't cut it for me.

Offline Friends of General Haig

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2020, 03:19:29 PM »
I also think the Charles Singleton book is the 'latest' on this subject. I enjoyed it very much.

Although older, I also recommend the various Stuart Reid books on the subject.  The Campaigns of Montrose, and the Osprey Auldearn 1645 in the Campaign series. Mr. Reid's view is that 17th infantry were Pike and Shot, and so the Irish brigade would have started off in the same manner.  It is of course fascinating to wonder how they evolved during 'the year of miracles'. 

For a Gaelic view then I recommend Highland Warrior by David Stevenson. Also the older Heather and the Gale by Ronald Williams.

Offline OB

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2020, 07:00:39 PM »
I recently found your Inverlochy blog and enjoyed the read.

Reid's Auldearn is good I think.  Generally though he struggles with what Highlanders could and couldn't do.  The idea that Highland chiefs clanked about with a multitude of weapons while the humblies at the back went unequipped misreads the clan martial.  That said he does credit the Highlanders with the decisive action at Kilsyth.

Most of the Irish brigade were Ulster Gaels.  There were two royalist factions in Ulster that of Eoin Ruadh and that of the MacDonnell Earl of Antrim.  Eoin's royalist allegiance was perhaps more nominal.  Eoin's Army of Ulster was eventually highly motivated and drilled and equipped as pike and shot.  The cavalry were lancers.  This was pretty much the ideal.  It was possible partly because of the significant number of Spanish veterans to be found in the Army of Ulster.  Other Irish confederate forces often failed to achieve it.  Montrose's Irish brigade were from the Antrim faction.

How far Antrim was able to reach the ideal is unclear to me.

However the brigade was equipped when it left Ireland we never read of them using pikes in Scotland.  It's been said their pikes never arrived.  Against that we don't read of them ever been under armed.  If their pikes were lost where did the extra muskets needed for the pike less pike men come from?  Nor do we read of them availing themselves of abandoned pikes on the battlefield.  Certainly the Highland clans were not flush enough with firearms to provide them to the Irish.  For those reasons I'm inclined to think Montrose's Irish were all musketeers from the outset.

Yes, I agree Stevenson has written some fine work.  Informative and enjoyable.


Offline Sandinista

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2020, 02:38:53 AM »
Given that the standard infantry regiment in Britain was armed with pike and musket until the early 1700's, I would expect that if the Irish regiments were only musket armed it would have been noted. For me the lack of comment suggests standard armament with pike and musket, as why comment on the obvious.

Offline 1ngram

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2020, 08:37:24 AM »
Sandanista, go read the contemporary accounts and you will see it specifically stated that the Irish Brigade did not have pikes in battle.  This was all thrashed out years ago in ECW N&Q

Offline Friends of General Haig

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2020, 12:07:40 PM »
I recently found your Inverlochy blog and enjoyed the read.at we don't read of them ever been under

Thanks, OB!  I really enjoyed that project and it kicked off a series further projects in the 17th century which have been great fun.  You make an interesting argument for musket only. It will be a fun experiment to try out some of the battles with the two alternatives.

@Sandanista - I’m surprised it is so clear cut either way. I’ve read some of the contemporary accounts which often lack those sorts of minutiae. I’m afraid I’m not familiar with the Notes and Queries discussion. Do you remember any details ?


Offline OB

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2020, 05:38:49 PM »
I'm currently converting some 15mm Highland pike men for Minimore's, Farqharson's and Seaforth's regular regiments.

ECW Notes and Queries was a series of booklets published by Partizan Press.  It's still available from Caliver Books.  I have a few issues and found the quality of research  good.  1ngram can likely tell you a lot more about them.

Offline Eoin OCnaimhsi

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2020, 12:10:59 AM »
Interesting post, thanks.

Were the Montrose Irish musketeers veterans of continental conflicts?

Offline OB

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Re: Montrose's Royalist Army any new research?
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2020, 12:51:13 PM »
Yes, a few of them were but in the main those lads could be found with Eoghan Ruadh O'Neill in the Army of Ulster or with Thomas Preston in the Leinster Irish Confederate forces.

Jerrold Casway's excellent biography of Eoghan is well worth a read on the subject.